Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think playing it out it out this season is more or less letting him walk for nothing in the summer. If he gets to FA, he will be leaving. TOR and DAL are unquestionably better basketball situations and the money difference is negligible. If he didn't sign now, he won't sign later.

As for trading him, can we really get something in return that's worth more than one year of Rudy? Who is giving us that trade package? Any team that trades for Rudy has massive leverage on UTA and they would also be under the assumption that Rudy is likely to leave. If you want to make a trade, muster up a realistic offer. There isn't a good one. The logical landing spots for Rudy (DAL and TOR) already have max space and it wouldn't make sense for them to trade for him now.

Overpaying is not great, but it has a much more minor impact compared to the other options. The cost is either 1) Ryan Smith's money or 2) having to get rid of a role player down the line to make up the difference.

I think we can still offer the super max in the offseason. I'd offer him the regular max or the 5 year kinda super max... so 5/195. I'd hold off on the 5/228 until the offseason and pull that out to beat the Dallas or Toronto offer. 228 is much better than 145.

The extra 33M is the premium for getting through the season healthy and having a good year. Would suck to start the super duper max contract and already have him hurt like John Wall was. If he wants to meet in the middle we can take that risk now. If he won't agree to 5/195 then he just doesn't want to be here and you weigh 1 year of Rudy versus what he can get in a trade. Also... I will be sad.

 

[KqWIN]

I think we can still offer the super max in the offseason. I'd offer him the regular max or the 5 year kinda super max... so 5/195. I'd hold off on the 5/228 until the offseason and pull that out to beat the Dallas or Toronto offer. 228 is much better than 145.

The extra 33M is the premium for getting through the season healthy and having a good year. Would suck to start the super duper max contract and already have him hurt like John Wall was. If he wants to meet in the middle we can take that risk now. If he won't agree to 5/195 then he just doesn't want to be here and you weigh 1 year of Rudy versus what he can get in a trade. Also... I will be sad.

I guess that's true. If he's willing to accept a certain amount of money now, he'll probably be willing to accept the same amount in the summer. But a lot of things can happen during the season. I'd really like to see a deal get done. I mean...if we're willing to go 5/195, 5/228 isn't too far off of that.

I would rather sign Gobert to 5/195 and Jake Toolson to 5/35 over losing for nothing or trading him for pennies.

 

[DasJazz]

I respect you for digging in and having a take. I also respectfully disagree.

I would love for both sides to come to a reasonable agreement. But like I said, for me, I'm just kinda done with the divaish antics and non-development on the offensive end.

I do agree he is a phenomenal player, but only on one side of the court which doesn't equate to max or even super max.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess that's true. If he's willing to accept a certain amount of money now, he'll probably be willing to accept the same amount in the summer. But a lot of things can happen during the season. I'd really like to see a deal get done. I mean...if we're willing to go 5/195, 5/228 isn't too far off of that.

I would rather sign Gobert to 5/195 and Jake Toolson to 5/35 over losing for nothing or trading him for pennies.

I kind of agree... I just think we don't have to go that far yet so currently we are negotiating against ourselves a bit... that seems like the natural compromise to get it done a year early. He'd be locking in $50M more than he can get from anyone else on the open market. If he gives us the Chandler Parsons "supermax or nothing bitch" then I think it is about more than money and hints at issues that could re-surface... so its not necessarily just the dollar amount.

If I was his agent and 5/195 was on the table I'd definitely be telling him to sign that ****. I don't think we have put that on the table... yet.

 

[LoPo]

I would love for both sides to come to a reasonable agreement. But like I said, for me, I'm just kinda done with the divaish antics and non-development on the offensive end.

I do agree he is a phenomenal player, but only on one side of the court which doesn't equate to max or even super max.

I agree.

Rudy expecting a supermax is a sign of his inability to measure his ego and value. He's not a superstar. He's not a supermax. Don't tell us you want to win a title here then demand what few in the NBA should ever get.

The yelling at the refs, ruffling feathers in the lockerroom, demanding more of the ball, etc. We have to win a title to be worth it at the supermax and we can't even get out of the first round.

Trade Rudy for John Collins and assets.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[KqWIN]

I kind of agree... I just think we don't have to go that far yet so currently we are negotiating against ourselves a bit... that seems like the natural compromise to get it done a year early. He'd be locking in $50M more than he can get from anyone else on the open market. If he gives us the Chandler Parsons "supermax or nothing bitch" then I think it is about more than money and hints at issues that could re-surface... so its not necessarily just the dollar amount.

If I was his agent and 5/195 was on the table I'd definitely be telling him to sign that ****. I don't think we have put that on the table... yet.

I don't read much into the Porter Larsen tweet, I think it's BS.

My guess is that you're onto something and UTA is at something below 5/195 and Rudy is firm at 5/228. I guess we'll see who blinks. It's the security of guaranteed money now versus the threat of leaving. No reason for anyone to give in until we get closer to the deadline.

I think you're right about the negotiation against ourselves. Supermax should be the last card played and much anxiety as it would give me, it's better to wait on that until summer.

The danger is that if Rudy leaves we're a 8-10 seed for a few seasons and then Don starts considering other options.

 

[KqWIN]

I agree.

Rudy expecting a supermax is a sign of his inability to measure his ego and value. He's not a superstar. He's not a supermax. Don't tell us you want to win a title here then demand what few in the NBA should ever get.

The yelling at the refs, ruffling feathers in the lockerroom, demanding more of the ball, etc. We have to win a title to be worth it at the supermax and we can't even get out of the first round.

Trade Rudy for John Collins and assets.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

The only measure of whether or not the supermax is worth it or not is if there is a better alternative.

Also, if you think ATL is giving up Collins + Capela for one year of Rudy you are out of your mind. Rudy would have to sign an extension for that to even be considered.

 

[LoPo]

The only measure of whether or not the supermax is worth it or not is if there is a better alternative.

Also, if you think ATL is giving up Collins + Capela for one year of Rudy you are out of your mind. Rudy would have to sign an extension for that to even be considered.

We don't know that. Atlanta was already reportedly questioning whether to extend Collins. And they still haven't.





Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[KqWIN]

FWIW, Tim McMahon said on his podcast that Rudy’s camp is not asking for the supermax and his sources said that the local report is false. He said the Jazz have an offer on the table but there is still a “gulf”. Figures are unclear. Both McMahon and Windhorst think the Jazz need to get a deal done because Gobert will get plenty of max offers in the summer as he is the top FA.

I trust McMahon over a local college football reporter who supposedly has more inside knowledge than everyone else in the media.

 

[LoPo]

This is a good breakdown:

Report: Jazz offered Rudy Gobert standard max extension, but he wants super-max

Yes, the same super-max extension worth more than $228 million that Giannis Antetokounmpo just signed.

nba.nbcsports.com

So Rudy wants somewhere between $190 and $228 I guess. If there is a "gulf" between the sides and Rudy doesn't want full supermax, he must be asking for $210-220 whereas our FO wants to pay between $180-200.

He's not a $40 million player for 5 years straight. He's just not.


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Bawse Dawg]

This is a good breakdown:

Report: Jazz offered Rudy Gobert standard max extension, but he wants super-max

Yes, the same super-max extension worth more than $228 million that Giannis Antetokounmpo just signed.

nba.nbcsports.com

So Rudy wants somewhere between $190 and $228 I guess. If there is a "gulf" between the sides and Rudy doesn't want full supermax, he must be asking for $210-220 whereas our FO wants to pay between $180-200.

He's not a $40 million player for 5 years straight. He's just not.


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

Stop trying to look 5 years into the future. Who the hell knows what will be happening at that point. The only thing we know for sure about 2025 is that $40 million will look like a lot less money by NBA contract standards than it looked in 2020.

 

[LoPo]

Stop trying to look 5 years into the future. Who the hell knows what will be happening at that point. The only thing we know for sure about 2025 is that $40 million will look like a lot less money by NBA contract standards than it looked in 2020.

Kevin Love makes $30 and people hate his contract. Chris Paul at $44 is an issue with most.

Sorry if I want to prepare for the worst. I'm a hopeful person, but I'm also cautious.

Re-signing to just trade him if things go south is too risky. He's not a PG or wing who can carve out a role. At 32 or 33, he might be unplayable come playoff time.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[KqWIN]

Do not trust a local college football radio host over actual NBA reporters.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Do not trust a local college football radio host over actual NBA reporters.

Locke kinda went off the end of his pod. It does not sound at all like Rudy is asking for supermax. My guess is it gets done this weekend now that Ryan had his official announcement... will be his “first move”. I’m going to be hopeful and just say it’s the regular max.

 

[infection]

Locke kinda went off the end of his pod. It does not sound at all like Rudy is asking for supermax. My guess is it gets done this weekend now that Ryan had his official announcement... will be his “first move”. I’m going to be hopeful and just say it’s the regular max.

Ryan's first move was Yogi.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ryan's first move was Yogi.

that was last night and it was Dell Demps turn for GM so it counts as his move.

 

[KqWIN]

Locke kinda went off the end of his pod. It does not sound at all like Rudy is asking for supermax. My guess is it gets done this weekend now that Ryan had his official announcement... will be his “first move”. I’m going to be hopeful and just say it’s the regular max.

My initial projection before everything was that Rudy was more likely to get below the normal max than the super max itself. I've been getting skiddish and raising my projection of what the deal may end landing on...but maybe I should have listened to my gut. This just shows how poor my negotiation skills are lol.

But yeah, the Porter Larsen "report" seemed fishy from the start. How does the Utah Utes football guy know more than all the local reporters? And now national reporters who are assigned to the Jazz directly refute that....hard to believe. Good for Porter I guess. Got all the news aggregators to make a story out of his tweet.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My initial projection before everything was that Rudy was more likely to get below the normal max than the super max itself. I've been getting skiddish and raising my projection of what the deal may end landing on...but maybe I should have listened to my gut. This just shows how poor my negotiation skills are lol.

But yeah, the Porter Larsen "report" seemed fishy from the start. How does the Utah Utes football guy know more than all the local reporters? And now national reporters who are assigned to the Jazz directly refute that....hard to believe. Good for Porter I guess. Got all the news aggregators to make a story out of his tweet.

I don't know what these negotiations are like... its one thing I'd love to be a fly on the wall for.

As a body language doctor I think the on court stuff with DM and Rudy has been much better. DM is looking for him early and often...Rudy seems to be back to his normal defensive effort and impact. The interactions between the two seem really positive.

I do think he wants to be here... I've always been given the impression he want to earn a title here and that he respects the belief the Jazz have in him as a player. I think the all star stuff got in both DM and Rudy's heads. I think it was a contract year (kind of) for both. I think if they are both paid and respected that stuff smooths over. The virus bringing it all to the surface may have been a good thing instead of a long term simmer they had a fist fight and got over it.

 

[KqWIN]

I don't know what these negotiations are like... its one thing I'd love to be a fly on the wall for.

As a body language doctor I think the on court stuff with DM and Rudy has been much better. DM is looking for him early and often...Rudy seems to be back to his normal defensive effort and impact. The interactions between the two seem really positive.

I do think he wants to be here... I've always been given the impression he want to earn a title here and that he respects the belief the Jazz have in him as a player. I think the all star stuff got in both DM and Rudy's heads. I think it was a contract year (kind of) for both. I think if they are both paid and respected that stuff smooths over. The virus bringing it all to the surface may have been a good thing instead of a long term simmer they had a fist fight and got over it.

I don't think there's really much to talk about as far as potential Rudy-Mitchell belief. It was overblown and the covid thing put a microscope on the situation. Really I think they were more upset about touches than anything. They're fine, it's a professional relationship which is how most relationships in the NBA are.

If we've established that Rudy is not demanding a supermax, this sounds like the initial Hayward negotiation. The player isn't asking for the full boat, but he maybe should get it anyways. There isn't a cap boom incoming like there was with Hayward, but the difference between what the Jazz think is fair and Rudy thinks is fair is probably not big enough that it should prevent the deal. If Rudy wants 5/195 and the Jazz want 5/175 for example....that's such a small difference over the years that I think the Jazz should just give it to him.

The Jazz shouldn't lose Rudy over a couple million a year....but this FO did lose Hayward over that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think there's really much to talk about as far as potential Rudy-Mitchell belief. It was overblown and the covid thing put a microscope on the situation. Really I think they were more upset about touches than anything. They're fine, it's a professional relationship which is how most relationships in the NBA are.

If we've established that Rudy is not demanding a supermax, this sounds like the initial Hayward negotiation. The player isn't asking for the full boat, but he maybe should get it anyways. There isn't a cap boom incoming like there was with Hayward, but the difference between what the Jazz think is fair and Rudy thinks is fair is probably not big enough that it should prevent the deal. If Rudy wants 5/195 and the Jazz want 5/175 for example....that's such a small difference over the years that I think the Jazz should just give it to him.

The Jazz shouldn't lose Rudy over a couple million a year....but this FO did lose Hayward over that.

I was actually on to the Rudy DM stuff early last year. Their interactions were pretty confrontational on court... a lot of times it was DM and he generally just much more positive in his interactions with others. I would also see Rudy open and them shoot a floater and he'd kinda do the hang your head thing. DM throwing some passes even when they aren't there I think engages Rudy a bit.