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Eminence

Well-Known Member
Thoughts on Bernie as the democratic candidate? Just really starting to look into the candidates this year and I know he's one I hear about all the time from my peers (college students). At first glance he's the one I prefer, but obviously he's appealing to all my current issues (student debt and what-not) so I want to hear what some non-students think of him.

Thinking of going back home (Iowa) and getting involved in the primaries again (was a county rep or whatever last time around, everybody else was too lazy to do it, so 18 year old me it was).
 
He has a lot of work to do in order to catch Clinton in any real way. But every poll sees him climbing in the polls. The newest one has him at 17%, up from the last poll I saw that had him at 12%. he is climbing fast and luckily for him there is still some time.
 
His impact is already felt, in that he's really pulling Hillary to the left in a lot of issues in order to try and stymie his rise. She knows that if she's too centralist that it's gonna dissatisfy a lot of voters (which is currently her main critique, other than coming across as inauthentic & being in cahoots with big business).

I'd vote for Bernie if I was American. Cheaper schooling? Sure! Universal healthcare? Umm yes pls. Dude was a member of MLK's march back in the 60s. Voted against the Iraq war, always staunchly against the War on Drugs.


Oh, and to you gun-control folks, he's actually quite pro guns. Refer to his policies in his home state of Vermont.


Yes, yes, he's a socialist so he might bankrupt America.
 
dalamon said:
His impact is already felt, in that he's really pulling Hillary to the left in a lot of issues in order to try and stymie his rise. She knows that if she's too centralist that it's gonna dissatisfy a lot of voters (which is currently her main critique, other than coming across as inauthentic & being in cahoots with big business).

I'd vote for Bernie if I was American. Cheaper schooling? Sure! Universal healthcare? Umm yes pls. Dude was a member of MLK's march back in the 60s. Voted against the Iraq war, always staunchly against the War on Drugs.


Oh, and to you gun-control folks, he's actually quite pro guns. Refer to his policies in his home state of Vermont.


Yes, yes, he's a socialist so he might bankrupt America.
Click to expand...

He is not "pro" guns. He would institute a ban on many firearms.
 
Eminence said:
Thoughts on Bernie as the democratic candidate? Just really starting to look into the candidates this year and I know he's one I hear about all the time from my peers (college students). At first glance he's the one I prefer, but obviously he's appealing to all my current issues (student debt and what-not) so I want to hear what some non-students think of him.

Thinking of going back home (Iowa) and getting involved in the primaries again (was a county rep or whatever last time around, everybody else was too lazy to do it, so 18 year old me it was).
Click to expand...


he is a full blown communist.
 
dalamon said:
His impact is already felt, in that he's really pulling Hillary to the left in a lot of issues in order to try and stymie his rise. She knows that if she's too centralist that it's gonna dissatisfy a lot of voters (which is currently her main critique, other than coming across as inauthentic & being in cahoots with big business).

I'd vote for Bernie if I was American. Cheaper schooling? Sure! Universal healthcare? Umm yes pls. Dude was a member of MLK's march back in the 60s. Voted against the Iraq war, always staunchly against the War on Drugs.


Oh, and to you gun-control folks, he's actually quite pro guns. Refer to his policies in his home state of Vermont.


Yes, yes, he's a socialist so he might bankrupt America.
Click to expand...


Ah, so sellsy and convincing.
 
Hmm, I'd probably agree that he isn't "pro-gun", but nothing I've seen really paints him as "anti-gun" either. Doesn't seem like he's been very vocal on the issue in general. Which I kind of agree with in that it's pretty low down on my priority list for choosing a candidate, feel like we've got quite a few bigger issues than gun-control.
 
Dr. Jones said:
I don't give a **** who's for guns or not.
Molon Labe.
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Brady and Xerxes hand in hand ehh?

Personally I feel like the current gun controls are fairly reasonable and don't need any radical changes one way or the other. The problem seems to be more with our mental health/health system. I think if we got that all fixed up and caught up with the rest of the modern world we'd see a dramatic decrease in a lot of the shootings and anti-gun talking points.
 
The keyword in that post is 'quite'-- meant it in relation to other competitors that are caucusing as Democrats, or members of the Democrat party in general.

He has appropriately focused on issues that lead to violence, whether gun-mediated or not.
 
Eminence said:
Brady and Xerxes hand in hand ehh?

Personally I feel like the current gun controls are fairly reasonable and don't need any radical changes one way or the other. The problem seems to be more with our mental health/health system. I think if we got that all fixed up and caught up with the rest of the modern world we'd see a dramatic decrease in a lot of the shootings and anti-gun talking points.
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That's not going to change with less spending, smaller-government approach I'm afraid. Mental health does not have a silver-bullet cure, and addressing it requires a lot of different approaches and resources both at the clinical and the community level.

There's two fronts on the problem with gun-violence:

- if you're trying to address gun violence as seen among gangs and inner-city communities, you need to address things like income inequality, American poverty, and a lack of social infrastructure supporting communities in need (along with hopefully addressing racial-dynamics)
- if you're trying to address mass-shootings, you either have to try and ramp up a multi-faceted approach to make sure there isn't an insane person left in America, or just ban items that pose a particular reckless risk to society by their mere presence alone.
 
dalamon said:
That's not going to change with less spending, smaller-government approach I'm afraid. Mental health does not have a silver-bullet cure, and addressing it requires a lot of different approaches and resources both at the clinical and the community level.

There's two fronts on the problem with gun-violence:

- if you're trying to address gun violence as seen among gangs and inner-city communities, you need to address things like income inequality, American poverty, and a lack of social infrastructure supporting communities in need (along with hopefully addressing racial-dynamics)
- if you're trying to address mass-shootings, you either have to try and ramp up a multi-faceted approach to make sure there isn't an insane person left in America, or just ban items that pose a particular reckless risk to society by their mere presence alone.
Click to expand...

I agree, part of that comes from the way that minority community conducts themselves. Not just from changes, sorely needed, in the majority comujnity and changes in society as a whole.

Banning guns is beyond a non starter in American politics and society. It will never happen short of civil war. If you banned guns sales and start trying to remove them what are you going to do? Go door to door on every property in the US and do a complete search? How much money will that cost? How well will that go over in places like Coldwater, MS. Panguitch, UT and Shamrock, TX.? It won't and people will die. Lot's of people. It'll lead to war. I'd bet on it.
 
dalamon said:
That's not going to change with less spending, smaller-government approach I'm afraid. Mental health does not have a silver-bullet cure, and addressing it requires a lot of different approaches and resources both at the clinical and the community level.

There's two fronts on the problem with gun-violence:

- if you're trying to address gun violence as seen among gangs and inner-city communities, you need to address things like income inequality, American poverty, and a lack of social infrastructure supporting communities in need (along with hopefully addressing racial-dynamics)
- if you're trying to address mass-shootings, you either have to try and ramp up a multi-faceted approach to make sure there isn't an insane person left in America, or just ban items that pose a particular reckless risk to society by their mere presence alone.
Click to expand...

-Bring on the spending, everyone is already broke already anyways. Feels like the better approach is just to say to heck with it and just focus on being better people to one another, damn the expense.

-Agree with the no silver-bullet. The community level seems impossible to directly address, but could be helped by dealing with things like inequality, healthcare in general (yes, I think it should be free), and even just improving primary education (simple stuff, teachers deserve more pay).

-From the clinical side I'm not real up on what goes on in the entry level mental health. ('Hey doc, I'm feeling kind of down'... sort of deal). But in the more serious situations the approach seems pretty outdated, and I'm no expert so I don't know the answers, but currently our solution is borderline jail.

-I agree that gang-violence is best addressed by trying to bring those communities up. Poverty/Education inequalities being the big two that I see. Drug decriminalization could also take a lot of power from these gangs.

-I'm not super familiar with the common racial dynamics in america. I grew up in an extremely diverse, but relatively small community (10k, shoutout to LazyD) so I didn't grow up with a lot of culture clash, we all got along because we had to I guess. Area wasn't large enough for each group to separate out. I have now moved on to another community of similar size but that it is completely White, and I can feel their... unease(not quite the right word) in dealing with situations involving minorities. I guess I'm just asking someone to try to summarize what the current issues are on this topic?

-Mass-shootings are an extremely difficult to deal with problem, almost uniquely american. I can't think of any direct approach to dealing with them either, they make me sad :(

-I like lists, and thanks for the discussion :)
 
Stoked said:
I agree, part of that comes from the way that minority community conducts themselves. Not just from changes, sorely needed, in the majority comujnity and changes in society as a whole.

Banning guns is beyond a non starter in American politics and society. It will never happen short of civil war. If you banned guns sales and start trying to remove them what are you going to do? Go door to door on every property in the US and do a complete search? How much money will that cost? How well will that go over in places like Coldwater, MS. Panguitch, UT and Shamrock, TX.? It won't and people will die. Lot's of people. It'll lead to war. I'd bet on it.
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if the proposed solution was confiscating all guns (which isn't what I meant or proposed), then you'd just ask citizens to turn them in, and start dishing out fines/sentences to those who don't obey the law and were seen using/owning weapons (that didn't sit with a certain criteria. For example, in the UK you're still allowed to hold onto guns for collection/family-related reasoning, etc.). That's what the UK did after Dunblane, and we all know what their gun violence stats are now. So you wouldnt have the necessity of getting George to turn in his great granddad's confederate rifle.
 
dalamon said:
if the proposed solution was confiscating all guns (which isn't what I meant or proposed), then you'd just ask citizens to turn them in, and start dishing out fines/sentences to those who don't obey the law and were seen using/owning weapons (that didn't sit with a certain criteria. For example, in the UK you're still allowed to hold onto guns for collection/family-related reasoning, etc.). That's what the UK did after Dunblane, and we all know what their gun violence stats are now. So you wouldnt have the necessity of getting George to turn in his great granddad's confederate rifle.
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I guarante that would explode into violence. Keep in mind I am not calling for violence. I just 100% expect it to result in violence over and over and over to the point up organized rebellion. It will never work in America. Wether that is good or bad I leave up to each person to decide.

What happens when a citizen refuses to comply and an arrest warrant is issued? Will the sherriff go down and arrest him? Extremely unlikely in small to medium towns through the south, great plains and mountain west. There are dozens of sherriffs on record as refusing to carry out such an order if they received one. So then what? Does the ATF get dispatched to round up to arrest them? How will that play in the local populace? I will tell you how. Cliven Bundy, that's how. Then what?
 
Stoked said:
I guarante that would explode into violence. Keep in mind I am not calling for violence. I just 100% expect it to result in violence over and over and over to the point up organized rebellion. It will never work in America. Wether that is good or bad I leave up to each person to decide.

What happens when a citizen refuses to comply and an arrest warrant is issued? Will the sherriff go down and arrest him? Extremely unlikely in small to medium towns through the south, great plains and mountain west. There are dozens of sherriffs on record as refusing to carry out such an order if they received one. So then what? Does the ATF get dispatched to round up to arrest them? How will that play in the local populace? I will tell you how. Cliven Bundy, that's how. Then what?
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Agreed, americans are psychotic about their guns. I don't hate people having guns, I prefer not to have them in my home but to each his own. But there is this odd obsession with guns that I just don't get. I feel like people would give up their children or cars before they give up their guns.
 
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