Can I just say that I'm sick and tired of the press [aka ESPN] calling out the Jazz for tanking?

[Tremendous Upside]

The Jazz tanking is not messing around with the integrity of the NBA. It's tanking in general. Quit calling out the Jazz as if they are the only ones guilty of it.

Was it ok for OKC to do? The Warriors? The Spurs? The Sixers - trust the process?

This is what I don't get. What do you expect from the rest of the league and the talking heads, a ****ing hug?? What the Jazz did was terrible. If you don't think so, own it. What do you care what anyone thinks? The FO and Hardy certainly didn't care.

I mean c'mon, it's getting past a joke and quit using the Jazz as your punching bag just because you don't want to see them succeed like other teams already have...

Yeah right.

 

[baka98]

This is what I don't get. What do you expect from the rest of the league and the talking heads, a ****ing hug?? What the Jazz did was terrible. If you don't think so, own it. What do you care what anyone thinks? The FO and Hardy certainly didn't care.




Yeah right.

You're not getting my point. My point is the Jazz aren't the only ones doing this. At least we're playing our top players unlike Washington, Pacers, etc...

 

[Tom Pitt]

It really is as worse at is has ever been. It's an issue. Don't take it personally

In all seriousness though, the league has nobody to blame but itself . A team that isn't good enough to compete for a title should try and maximize it's chances to acquire top level talent. They can also prioritize developing/evaluating young players in 4th quarters while also trying to maintain good lotto odds. This is the system the league established. The Jazz are just operating within the rules. It has nobody to blame but itself imo

 

[GunterD]

People have an image of how things are and how they expect them to be. People will go to great lengths in their minds to justify that their image is correct. People will react violently when this image is confronted in a way that destroys their perception.

What the Jazz are doing is no different than what they and other teams have done in the past, holding out players on bogus injuries, shutting down guys who could play for "rest". In my opinion its better than that even, at least their playing their guys some, and legitimate minutes even. They could bypass the rules by pulling everyone right after the tipoff.

But this is what is happening here. People have a perception that what happens on the court is always everyone involved in the game, from the coaches to the players, trying to win as hard as they can. Off court shenanigans happen outside of that game boundary, so they can nicely tuck that away and ignore it. What the Jazz did breaks that perception, it moved the manipulation from off court to on the court. Doing so breaks their perception of the "integrity of the game", confronts them with evidence that can't be shuffled away and ignored. So they have very strong emotional responses to it.

 

[MTS]

I mean, obviously tanking is extremely lame and something should be done about it.

But at the same time, pretending what the Jazz are doing is EXTRA-egregious because they're playing their starters some minutes instead of sitting them outright, is unbelievably stupid.

"The media reaction proves otherwise", says the moron who somehow doesn't understand the media is incentivized to generate outrage.

 

[bigmike]

IMO we are doing it about as ethically as we can. Sitting dudes in the 4th is much better than faking injuries, not playing them at all, etc. And if we get slapped on the wrist with another $250K fine so be it (easy for me to say, of course).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Locke had a hypothesis that raising the salary floor makes sitting players worse because teams have to employ players with high salaries in order to hit the floor and then when they want to be bad they are going to sit those players.

I'm not sure I agree with his point, still thinking about it.

 

[MTS]

People have a perception that what happens on the court is always everyone involved in the game, from the coaches to the players, trying to win as hard as they can. Off court shenanigans happen outside of that game boundary, so they can nicely tuck that away and ignore it. What the Jazz did breaks that perception, it moved the manipulation from off court to on the court. Doing so breaks their perception of the "integrity of the game", confronts them with evidence that can't be shuffled away and ignored. So they have very strong emotional responses to it.

It says more about the stupidity of people in general if they have a larger emotional response to a team outright sitting all their good players from the tip compared to playing them 12 fewer minutes.

 

[Tom Pitt]

People have an image of how things are and how they expect them to be. People will go to great lengths in their minds to justify that their image is correct. People will react violently when this image is confronted in a way that destroys their perception.

What the Jazz are doing is no different than what they and other teams have done in the past, holding out players on bogus injuries, shutting down guys who could play for "rest". In my opinion its better than that even, at least their playing their guys some, and legitimate minutes even. They could bypass the rules by pulling everyone right after the tipoff.

But this is what is happening here. People have a perception that what happens on the court is always everyone involved in the game, from the coaches to the players, trying to win as hard as they can. Off court shenanigans happen outside of that game boundary, so they can nicely tuck that away and ignore it. What the Jazz did breaks that perception, it moved the manipulation from off court to on the court. Doing so breaks their perception of the "integrity of the game", confronts them with evidence that can't be shuffled away and ignored. So they have very strong emotional responses to it.

I personally don't see it as an issue if a rebuilding team wants to develop/evaluate young players late in games while also trying to maximize lotto odds with the understanding those players won't win as many games as your stars. The players the Jazz are playing are still trying to win and that's what matters

 

[GunterD]

It says more about the stupidity of people in general if they have a larger emotional response to a team outright sitting all their good players from the tip compared to playing them 12 fewer minutes.

I submit this whole thread as evidence that I am correct.

 

[fishonjazz]

IMO we are doing it about as ethically as we can. Sitting dudes in the 4th is much better than faking injuries, not playing them at all, etc. And if we get slapped on the wrist with another $250K fine so be it (easy for me to say, of course).

Ya we almost certainly lose last night's game if we sit nurk and Lauri or something.

 

[HermanG]

Oh, for crying out loud. Boo hoo. The entire NBA media ecosystem has gone from embracing tanking to full evangelical revival mode—hands raised, eyes closed, preaching the holy gospel of “tear it down” as if it’s divine revelation handed down from the basketball gods. And I mean everyone: every pundit, blog boy, podcaster, YouTube prophet, and talking-head rent-a-brain has not merely jumped on the tanking bandwagon, they’ve strapped themselves to the hood like it’s the last helicopter out of Saigon.

And yet somehow, amid this unanimous, full-throated sermonizing, I’ve never once heard a serious skeptic ask the most basic questions: Does structural tanking actually work? Is it a reliable path to a championship, or even sustained deep playoff runs? (Spoiler: the evidence says no.) What does a “successful tank” even mean? Three years? Five? A decade of aesthetic misery punctuated by ping-pong balls? And what about costs -- actual, measurable costs -- so we could talk like adults about return on investment instead of treating deliberate losing like it’s some kind of advanced analytics cheat code?

And don’t even get me started on the ethics. Tanking isn’t some abstract strategy on a whiteboard; it’s a business model built on exploiting fan loyalty. It’s intentionally selling a shiIty product for not one, not two, not three, and often not four or more years, while still charging premium prices for tickets, parking, and concessions, all while peddling “hope” they can’t guarantee in any way, shape, or form. It’s basically “trust the process,” etched by the finger of God onto tablets of stone and brought down from the mountain top.

The entire NBA landscape is now saturated with tanking, talking about it, praising it, promoting it, ridiculing teams that don’t tank hard enough, and absolutely savaging any franchise that decides, audaciously, to stop hemorrhaging losses and attempt the radical experiment of trying to win basketball games. You know, acquiring veterans, balancing out young players, building a roster that resembles an actual professional team rather than a G-League witness protection program.

And now, now, after years of nonstop cheerleading, suddenly the same media crowd is clutching its pearls: “Oh my heavens, the Jazz are tanking too much! Where is my fainting couch? Fetch the smelling salts!” Give me a f’n break. You helped create this monster. You fed it. You raised it. You tucked it in at night and whispered sweet nothings about draft odds and asset accumulation. For years, it’s been: more tanking, more tanking, there’s not enough tanking.

Well, apparently, there is enough tanking.

So instead of acting self-righteous about the grotesque creature you midwifed and nurtured so lovingly, maybe, just maybe, you could’ve engaged in a nuanced, informed, and critical discourse on tanking from the beginning. But no. That would’ve required thought, intellectual consistency, and a memory longer than a single NBA season.

In summary, to all the same NBA intelligentsia now suddenly reaching for their smelling salts over the Jazz, shut the F up.

Bravo, sir.