Can We Please Just Waive NWG?

[SCS]

Agree. Waive and sign Shaq Harrison now. It's unbelievable that Shaq hasn't been signed. Young, athletic, proven defender, showed actual shooting potential. I was convinced a contender would snag him fast. Can't believe he's still available.

It won't happen though. I don't think NWG gets waived until Jan/Feb. Right before his guarantee kicks in.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Per 36 isn't great for someone getting 10 minutes a game. His stats are good but that wasn't what I tried to say. When I watch Matisse, I see him not just getting deflections or steals. He is busting screens, blocking paths in every play and it's not just against his guy. It feels like he is a little Rudy defending everywhere.

When I watched Shaq I saw a plus defender that has quick hands who can guard multiple positions but his impact doesn't go much beyond whoever he is guarding.

In the end, I would love him to sign here and I am sure he would find a role off the bench.

That’s all fair and good but half the time I watch Thybulle I see a guy that is disruptive and the other half of the time I see a guy that is a cat chasing a laser pointer and gambling too much.

I think they are in the same class of player even if Matisse is a better defender... because Shaq can do more with the ball.

And again... I know you are with me here... but why the **** would you keep NWG over getting this guy? And he is super duper gettable. I know the front office has more data and info but I’m also
aware that the still **** up constantly.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sure...but don’t assume you’re a Nostradamus because you have access to the internet. There’s a reason why players get dumped and there’s a reason why Shaq got dumped twice by horrible teams and can’t find a team right now.

I am 100% for signing him. But I’m not naive enough to think that there isn’t something we don’t know here.

Just like there is some reason they passed on Josh Hart and Derrick White and Thomas Bryant for Tony Bradley... they have more info they are always smarter and better than internet basketball nerds... sometimes it’s obvious and they still **** up. I get that I don’t have all the info... I also don’t need all the info.

 

[KqWIN]

Just like there is some reason they passed on Josh Hart and Derrick White and Thomas Bryant for Tony Bradley... they have more info they are always smarter and better than internet basketball nerds... sometimes it’s obvious and they still **** up. I get that I don’t have all the info... I also don’t need all the info.

OK, am I sure you've never missed on any player evaluation ever. It's also different when 30 teams are in agreement on something. I can tell it's personal and you think this Shaw Harrison thing is UTA specific, but remember that it is not. Everything you've said about Shaq and his numbers are valid, which is why I also believe we should give him a shot. Doesn't mean that I have ignore the fact that there clearly a reason why everyone is passing on him...whether that's a good enough reason or not.

 

[KqWIN]

You are assuming a perfectly efficient market and it’s not at all.

Your assumption is that your method of evaluating players is perfectly efficient.

 

[Avery]

NWG is a scrub, but let's face it, we're only playing 9-10 guys a game anyway many nights so he's not going to get run.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OK, am I sure you've never missed on any player evaluation ever. It's also different when 30 teams are in agreement on something. I can tell it's personal and you think this Shaw Harrison thing is UTA specific, but remember that it is not. Everything you've said about Shaq and his numbers are valid, which is why I also believe we should give him a shot. Doesn't mean that I have ignore the fact that there clearly a reason why everyone is passing on him...whether that's a good enough reason or not.

I’ve been wrong plenty... I’ve also been right when the front office or multiple front offices are wrong.

Part of the reason I’m confident is that I’ve made my living in part because I don’t do things that don’t make sense even when everyone else does it that way. I’m comfortable being on an island against more experienced and smarter people... because I’ve done it in real life and it’s worked out extremely well.

It isnt personal... it’s just one of many fairly obvious things we could do but won’t. People here can err on the side of management but they should know they’ve been wrong a lot.

 

[infection]

OK...everyone wants something good from the unwanted pile. NWG is in the unwanted pile so that is a totally moot point. Again, there are 30 NBA teams. It’s not just UTA that is passing from him.

I would drop NWG and sign Shaq in a heartbeat. Would have done the same for RHJ who only got a camp deal. But I live in the real world and know that there’s more to it than bball-ref page and some YouTube highlights.

It doesn’t mean Shaq is actually bad. Several players have been dumped from one or multiple teams and gone on to find success. Just saying that there is a reason why Shaq is in the position he’s in...and it’s likely intel we don’t know about.

I'm not sure how much we can read into intel being the reason 30 teams aren't signing him. He's not going to be an all-star. He's going to be a rotation defensive piece (what they tried to sell us on Exum being). The bigger issue here is fit -- we have a need and he's the kind of guy we need. If I'm the Bulls GM, I have no interest in buying wallpaper while I'm busy pouring a foundation. If I'm the Clippers I have a lot of guys who play perimeter defense and I have no need for a minimum guy from Chicago. If I'm Minnesota I know my team sucks and we have much bigger fish to fry. If I'm Miami, I've got a lot of guys who guard the perimeter, including my star player. If I'm New York, it's going to take a lot more than a defensive piece off the bench to put out the dumpster fire. If I'm the Lakers, I have the luxury of finding exactly who I want.

90% of the league doesn't need someone like Shaq. So to say 30 NBA teams know something is misleading. It's more a question of why aren't teams like Utah and Portland signing him. And the answer to the former is more complicated than saying there's a flaw with Shaq. It's because they're holding on to guys that they, for whatever reason, have valued higher. And if you don't think we have a track record of overvaluing our guys compared to other, better options around the league, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

This is 100% about fit.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

NWG is a scrub, but let's face it, we're only playing 9-10 guys a game anyway many nights so he's not going to get run.

Perfect. Thank you... when Murray or Dame are scoring 50 a night on us don’t complain there is no one on the bench to turn to. If there was ever a year of the 14and 15th man it’s this year. Between Covid, a condensed training camp, and shortened offseason depth will be more important than ever.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not sure how much we can read into intel being the reason 30 teams aren't signing him. He's not going to be an all-star. He's going to be a rotation defensive piece (what they tried to sell us on Exum being). The bigger issue here is fit -- we have a need and he's the kind of guy we need. If I'm the Bulls GM, I have no interest in buying wallpaper while I'm busy pouring a foundation. If I'm the Clippers I have a lot of guys who play perimeter defense and I have no need for a minimum guy from Chicago. If I'm Minnesota I know my team sucks and we have much bigger fish to fry. If I'm Miami, I've got a lot of guys who guard the perimeter, including my star player. If I'm New York, it's going to take a lot more than a defensive piece off the bench to put out the dumpster fire. If I'm the Lakers, I have the luxury of finding exactly who I want.

90% of the league doesn't need someone like Shaq. So to say 30 NBA teams know something is misleading. It's more a question of why aren't teams like Utah and Portland signing him. And the answer to the former is more complicated than saying there's a flaw with Shaq. It's because they're holding on to guys that they, for whatever reason, have valued higher. And if you don't think we have a track record of overvaluing our guys compared to other, better options around the league, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

This is 100% about fit.

DL has consistently been wrong on holding on to his own projects... even though he has all the data.

 

[KqWIN]

I’ve been wrong plenty... I’ve also been right when the front office or multiple front offices are wrong.

Part of the reason I’m confident is that I’ve made my living in part because I don’t do things that don’t make sense even when everyone else does it that way. I’m comfortable being on an island against more experienced and smarter people... because I’ve done it in real life and it’s worked out extremely well.

It isnt personal... it’s just one of many fairly obvious things we could do but won’t. People here can err on the side of management but they should know they’ve been wrong a lot.

You're right, Shaq Harrison is a completely obvious signing. He's a not a secret by any means, nobody is on an island alone by vouching for him. Every online basketball nerd is wanting their team to sign him.

Again, I can't stress this enough. It's every single team in the league. The reason why I'm bringing that up time and time again is that people think this is UTA related snub. It is not. It is a league wide snub.

When something is this obvious, but no team will touch him, I understand that there is something that I don't know. Does that mean the teams are right and the nerds are wrong, no...But I can at least acknowledge that there is something I don't know. It could be something like demanding more money or guaranteed playing time. For all we know, the Jazz are dying to sign him but he doesn't see the minutes there behind Donovan, Conley, Clarkson ect that he wants. Maybe he's deciding between 10 different and taking his time.

 

[infection]

DL has consistently been wrong on holding on to his own projects... even though he has all the data.

I wonder what data they had supporting picking up TB's option vs. the data they had to salary dump him with assets.

 

[KqWIN]

I'm not sure how much we can read into intel being the reason 30 teams aren't signing him. He's not going to be an all-star. He's going to be a rotation defensive piece (what they tried to sell us on Exum being). The bigger issue here is fit -- we have a need and he's the kind of guy we need. If I'm the Bulls GM, I have no interest in buying wallpaper while I'm busy pouring a foundation. If I'm the Clippers I have a lot of guys who play perimeter defense and I have no need for a minimum guy from Chicago. If I'm Minnesota I know my team sucks and we have much bigger fish to fry. If I'm Miami, I've got a lot of guys who guard the perimeter, including my star player. If I'm New York, it's going to take a lot more than a defensive piece off the bench to put out the dumpster fire. If I'm the Lakers, I have the luxury of finding exactly who I want.

90% of the league doesn't need someone like Shaq. So to say 30 NBA teams know something is misleading. It's more a question of why aren't teams like Utah and Portland signing him. And the answer to the former is more complicated than saying there's a flaw with Shaq. It's because they're holding on to guys that they, for whatever reason, have valued higher. And if you don't think we have a track record of overvaluing our guys compared to other, better options around the league, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

This is 100% about fit.

I completely disagree. Shaq is the player every team in the league needs. A versatile, disruptive defender that can guard multiple positions, potentially play multiple positions on offense, and also potentially shoot. That is what every team in the league needs.

Shaq is the most obvious, "WE SHOULD SIGN THIS GUY" out there. There's no question about it. I'm just not naïve to think that there is a reason why he hasn't signed yet.

 

[Hekate]

That’s all fair and good but half the time I watch Thybulle I see a guy that is disruptive and the other half of the time I see a guy that is a cat chasing a laser pointer and gambling too much.

I think they are in the same class of player even if Matisse is a better defender... because Shaq can do more with the ball.

And again... I know you are with me here... but why the **** would you keep NWG over getting this guy? And he is super duper gettable. I know the front office has more data and info but I’m also
aware that the still **** up constantly.

Shaq has higher usage but it's hard to get usage playing with Embiid and Simmons. Even with that Matisse has shown some point-forward potential and their shooting is a wash. Thybulle is inconsistent but attempted higher no of shots and made %36. I didn't watch Shaq with as much attention so I can't comment on his consistency. FT goes to Shaq but I believe Matisse has a better form.

They can sign him without waiving NWG so I don't know why. The tax thing is bothering me. Just gotta wait and see. I also expected him to sign till now which is weird. He would fill a role on quite a few teams.

 

[Getting Traded]

Maybe NWG is one of those high-IQ but not so good players like Niang, and they function almost like assistant coaches as well as players ??? It would seem there are many players out there who are more athletic and have much greater upside but the Jazz are sticking with them. Teams like guys like that. For instance, look how teams have kept guys like Vince Carter and Udonis Haslem way past their prime.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Shaq has higher usage but it's hard to get usage playing with Embiid and Simmons. Even with that Matisse has shown some point-forward potential and their shooting is a wash. Thybulle is inconsistent but attempted higher no of shots and made %36. I didn't watch Shaq with as much attention so I can't comment on his consistency. FT goes to Shaq but I believe Matisse has a better form.

They can sign him without waiving NWG so I don't know why. The tax thing is bothering me. Just gotta wait and see. I also expected him to sign till now which is weird. He would fill a role on quite a few teams.

Thybulle can’t really dribble or drive and Shaq can masquerade as a point guard... I don’t think that is a function of playing with guys like Simmons and Embiid.

I wanted a striking name to compare to him... its why I used Matisse.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You're right, Shaq Harrison is a completely obvious signing. He's a not a secret by any means, nobody is on an island alone by vouching for him. Every online basketball nerd is wanting their team to sign him.

Again, I can't stress this enough. It's every single team in the league. The reason why I'm bringing that up time and time again is that people think this is UTA related snub. It is not. It is a league wide snub.

When something is this obvious, but no team will touch him, I understand that there is something that I don't know. Does that mean the teams are right and the nerds are wrong, no...But I can at least acknowledge that there is something I don't know. It could be something like demanding more money or guaranteed playing time. For all we know, the Jazz are dying to sign him but he doesn't see the minutes there behind Donovan, Conley, Clarkson ect that he wants. Maybe he's deciding between 10 different and taking his time.

It may or may not be a league wide snub... he might have several minimum offers on the table and he’s waiting for the right one to flesh out. I’m saying he’s super gettable at this point and even if it’s more than a minimum we should go get him. I think our front office has thrown in the towel and is just focused on our guys at this point. They have a history of casting a narrow net and locking in on one or two guys and then staying with it even when they shouldn’t.

It also isn’t just a Shaq thing. There are a handful of players we could bring in that are clearly better prospects than NWG.

I think there is a lazy/easy element to it and a personal component to it... NWG seems like a great person... It’s like if you were the boss and Harry from shipping is not great and he will never be management material but you know what he’s a great guy and I know his family... we could bring in this guy Jeff who is a great candidate to do more but is also solid when it comes to shipping. We already have a shipping department manager so it’s fine to keep NWG... saves me an awkward conversation too.
Then your shipping manager leaves for a different job and you are left promoting Harry or bringing in outside help... but the outside help will require a big bonus to bring over now and there aren’t any candidates... man I wish we had hired Jeff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe NWG is one of those high-IQ but not so good players like Niang, and they function almost like assistant coaches as well as players ??? It would seem there are many players out there who are more athletic and have much greater upside but the Jazz are sticking with them. Teams like guys like that. For instance, look how teams have kept guys like Vince Carter and Udonis Haslem way past their prime.

As much **** as Niang gets he has an nba skill... he shoots the piss out of the ball.

 

[Jazzmix]

Maybe NWG is one of those high-IQ but not so good players like Niang, and they function almost like assistant coaches as well as players ??? It would seem there are many players out there who are more athletic and have much greater upside but the Jazz are sticking with them. Teams like guys like that. For instance, look how teams have kept guys like Vince Carter and Udonis Haslem way past their prime.

Well, you can keep Vince Carter on your team because he is still able to play 5 min once in a while and he is a mentor and walking legend who can teach young players. NWG may have 180 BBIQ but it doesnt mean any young guy would even bother listening to him.

 

[infection]

It may or may not be a league wide snub... he might have several minimum offers on the table and he’s waiting for the right one to flesh out. I’m saying he’s super gettable at this point and even if it’s more than a minimum we should go get him. I think our front office has thrown in the towel and is just focused on our guys at this point. They have a history of casting a narrow net and locking in on one or two guys and then staying with it even when they shouldn’t.

It also isn’t just a Shaq thing. There are a handful of players we could bring in that are clearly better prospects than NWG.

I think there is a lazy/easy element to it and a personal component to it... NWG seems like a great person... It’s like if you were the boss and Harry from shipping is not great and he will never be management material but you know what he’s a great guy and I know his family... we could bring in this guy Jeff who is a great candidate to do more but is also solid when it comes to shipping. We already have a shipping department manager so it’s fine to keep NWG... saves me an awkward conversation too.
Then your shipping manager leaves for a different job and you are left promoting Harry or bringing in outside help... but the outside help will require a big bonus to bring over now and there aren’t any candidates... man I wish we had hired Jeff.

DL is on record saying that he does not like the off-season and the trade deadline because he does not like moving people and the whole relationship thing. Of course, you could say this is just PR speak, but every single move he makes (or doesn't make, rather) screams this. The question is, to what degree do we sacrifice improvement to accommodate this?