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Collin Sexton traded to Charlotte Hornets for Jusuf Nurkic

KqWIN said:
I actually 100% agree with your initial post I replied to, and I'd add onto that by saying that many fans enjoy the low stress environment of tanking. A lot of fans were incredibly unhappy during the end years of Don+Rudy and that's because there were real expectations to win. There was a lot on the line and that created a lot of stress. The most unhappy teams are the ones who have expectations and fail to meet them. It's why so many coaches of the year get fired. They set a high expectation and it's difficult to uphold it. When you're tanking, you either win or you win. The most stress you'll get is when you win a game you wanted to lose. I think this is comfortable situation for many whether they will admit it or not.

But I made my post because I also 100% agree with tanking in this moment. Tanking is not nearly as effective as people make it out to me, but the other options besides tanking are horrible right now. I've landed on the conclusion that tanking is horrible and not a great strategy but it is still better than the other options at this moment. So I don't think it's fair to dismiss everyone that wants to tank as someone who thinks tanking is a great strategy or someone who just loves gambling. It's not taking the high road to simply say that tanking is bad.

I don't think it's an unreasonable standard to consider other alternatives because many have and we talk about all day everyday around here. If you're unwilling to offer a solution, that's fine, but at that point it's just a complaint and not a real discussion about whether tanking is a positive direction or not.
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one of your all time best posts. i agree with everything you said here, but your first paragraph in particular. i kinda hate to admit it, but it describes me to a T. i get the added bonus that i really like watching young prospects get a lot of playing time and shots.

iow, it's easy for me - either be a legit contender, on your way up (young guys improving, win/loss record improving year to year, going deeper and deeper in the playoffs each year, etc), or tank. and I simply don't mind the last option at all because, as you said, it's low to zero stress, i get to watch prospects play, and along with the low stress, you get to have hope for the future.
 
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
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We got second(s) for Mills/Eubanks last year, right?
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
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You can just cut him if he doesn't agree to buy out. You won't save much/any money but you will save the second... if that's what you want.
 
stitches said:
You can just cut him if he doesn't agree to buy out. You won't save much/any money but you will save the second... if that's what you want.
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Dumb counterpoint.....You don't want to waive Sexton because you can't use his salary in a trade later. But you also can't sit him/send him home because he's Collin Sexton. Maybe you can bench/send Nurkic away? Keep the trade option open w/o the messy benching situation.

Idk....seems like we just got a very expensive Eubanks and paid for it :(
 
stitches said:
You can just cut him if he doesn't agree to buy out. You won't save much/any money but you will save the second... if that's what you want.
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Now you are talking about the difference in cost between hopefully a mid second round pick vs whatever contract we pick up. Also it could be useful to have the Nurkic contract in place for a future deal.

Again, maybe not a good reason, but a reason.
 
KqWIN said:
Dumb counterpoint.....You don't want to waive Sexton because you can't use his salary in a trade later. But you also can't sit him/send him home because he's Collin Sexton. Maybe you can bench/send Nurkic away? Keep the trade option open w/o the messy benching situation.

Idk....seems like we just got a very expensive Eubanks and paid for it :(
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This just seems way too convoluted. I think the truth is much more simple - the Ainges like Nurkic A LOT MORE than most of us.
 
stitches said:
This just seems way too convoluted. I think the truth is much more simple - the Ainges like Nurkic A LOT MORE than most of us.
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And that truth much more easily explained. You could make the argument that (on paper) Nurkic is better than Sexton. And we needed a C more than another small guard. I understand valuing PT for our young guards, don't understand prioritizing wins right now.
 
KqWIN said:
And that truth much more easily explained. You could make the argument that (on paper) Nurkic is better than Sexton. And we needed a C more than another small guard. I understand valuing PT for our young guards, don't understand prioritizing wins right now.
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We are really gonna go with the angle that Nurkic is better than Sexton? Every analyst that has discussed this deal would disagree.
 
KqWIN said:
I said that you could make the argument (on paper) that Nurkic is better than Sexton. But that's not my own personal opinion.
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Don't think Jazz traded Sexton for Nurkic cause Nurkic is better
Jazz had too many guards and no backup center
Sexton was odd man out
Does not seem like a fair trade but Austin is running the show now and this may be the first of many moves he makes
 
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KqWIN said:
And that truth much more easily explained. You could make the argument that (on paper) Nurkic is better than Sexton. And we needed a C more than another small guard. I understand valuing PT for our young guards, don't understand prioritizing wins right now.
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My beef with this thing is... for this to make sense... you need both Jazz FO and Charlotte FO to believe it(that Nurkic>Sexton)... and to believe that the other one believes it.

The Hornets got a first for taking Nurkic just 5 months ago. They must have convinced the Suns that they think Nurkic is trash to be able to get that return for absorbing Nurkic... and then 25 mediocre games later somehow Nurkic is able to fetch you a Sexton AND another pick... This is my biggest beef. You have to sense the mood in the room. You have to at least have some cursory understanding about how those players are valued in the league. Maybe you have understanding of how Sexton is valued because you have been trying to trade him... but how the hell do you not know that Nurkic was widely considered negative contract? This is more about the process of how they got there. This reminds me of the Bogdanovic trade where everybody expected us to get a 1st+ in return... and all we got is Kelly Olynyk.
 
stitches said:
My beef with this thing is... for this to make sense... you need both Jazz FO and Charlotte FO to believe it(that Nurkic>Sexton)... and to believe that the other one believes it.

The Hornets got a first for taking Nurkic just 5 months ago. They must have convinced the Suns that they think Nurkic is trash to be able to get that return for absorbing Nurkic... and then 25 mediocre games later somehow Nurkic is able to fetch you a Sexton AND another pick... This is my biggest beef. You have to sense the mood in the room. You have to at least have some cursory understanding about how those players are valued in the league. Maybe you have understanding of how Sexton is valued because you have been trying to trade him... but how the hell do you not know that Nurkic was widely considered negative contract? This is more about the process of how they got there. This reminds me of the Bogdanovic trade where everybody expected us to get a 1st+ in return... and all we got is Kelly Olynyk.
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Yeah....anyways you slice it, it's hard to ignore that we just got fleeced in the negotiation aspect. Just trying to mental gymnastics my way into describing how our FO thinks we're in a either position than before.

I was about to mention the KO trade and it's similarities. I think it may also be the case where we traded for the better player (despite people thinking Bogey was better), but it came at a time where it didn't really make sense to desire a better player.
 
HeatCheck said:
Fairly sure Klutch is the mastermind here especially when you consider both Nurk and Sexton are Klutch clients. They likely believe Charlotte is a better spot for Sexton heading into a contract year. Just my guess though.

Hopefully now they find a spot for Clarkson even if it just means a buyout/cap savings for the Jazz.
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Agree. AA wanted to move Sexton, but Sexton probably wanted to get traded as well. I’m sure he talked about his situation with his agent. He saw what the Jazz’s plans are for next season, with our roster full of young players. Same with Collins. Wouldn’t be surprising if he wants to move on.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
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Even if he doesn't take the buyout, his salary would be offset by his minimum deal or whatever he got iirc. So it would have saved some money that way.

We have a lot of ways to make salary work so didn't really get it from that standpoint... maybe we waive Clarkson and didn't want to waive them both or needed some salary at that point.

Overall... just a bad deal. Whatevs... guess they are cleaning out the closet.
 
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