Hax0rs
Banned
Some say, "The darker the berry, the sweeter the juice"; I say "The darker the flesh, then the deeper the roots".
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Hekate
- Start date
Red
Well-Known Member
I’ve been focused, and mentioned here several times, the Provincetown, Ma. outbreak in which 74% of the infected are among the fully vaccinated. Apparently the CDC has been focused on that same cluster….
abcnews.go.com
Before Provincetown, health officials had been operating under the assumption that it was extraordinarily rare for a vaccinated person to become infected with the virus. And if they did, they probably wouldn't end up passing it on to others, such as children too young to qualify for the vaccine or people who were medically vulnerable.
The idea that vaccines halt transmission of the virus was largely behind the CDC's decision in May suggesting vaccinated people could safely go without their masks indoors and in crowds, even if others were unvaccinated.
But that assumption had been based on studies of earlier versions of the virus. Delta was known for its "hyper-transmissibility," or as one former White House adviser put it "COVID on steroids."
"What has changed is the virus," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert and Biden's chief medical adviser.
When a vaccinated person gets infected with delta -- called a "breakthrough infection" -- "the level of virus in their nasopharynx is about 1,000 times higher than with the alpha variant," Fauci said in an interview Wednesday with MSNBC.
All indications now are that the Provincetown outbreak investigation is among the pieces of new evidence behind the CDC's decision to ask Americans to once again put on their masks indoors, even if they are vaccinated.
….the biggest driver was new unpublished research on a person's "viral load" -- the amount of virus in a person's nasal passages -- being considerably high even after being vaccinated with a U.S.-approved vaccine.
"What we've learned … is that when we examine the rare or breakthrough infections and we look at the amount of virus in those people, it is pretty similar to the amount of virus in unvaccinated people," she said.
www.wcvb.com
CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak
The CDC's mask decision followed stunning findings from a Cape Cod beach outbreak. The viral load of vaccinated beachgoers changed what we know about the delta variant.
abcnews.go.com
Before Provincetown, health officials had been operating under the assumption that it was extraordinarily rare for a vaccinated person to become infected with the virus. And if they did, they probably wouldn't end up passing it on to others, such as children too young to qualify for the vaccine or people who were medically vulnerable.
The idea that vaccines halt transmission of the virus was largely behind the CDC's decision in May suggesting vaccinated people could safely go without their masks indoors and in crowds, even if others were unvaccinated.
But that assumption had been based on studies of earlier versions of the virus. Delta was known for its "hyper-transmissibility," or as one former White House adviser put it "COVID on steroids."
"What has changed is the virus," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert and Biden's chief medical adviser.
When a vaccinated person gets infected with delta -- called a "breakthrough infection" -- "the level of virus in their nasopharynx is about 1,000 times higher than with the alpha variant," Fauci said in an interview Wednesday with MSNBC.
All indications now are that the Provincetown outbreak investigation is among the pieces of new evidence behind the CDC's decision to ask Americans to once again put on their masks indoors, even if they are vaccinated.
….the biggest driver was new unpublished research on a person's "viral load" -- the amount of virus in a person's nasal passages -- being considerably high even after being vaccinated with a U.S.-approved vaccine.
"What we've learned … is that when we examine the rare or breakthrough infections and we look at the amount of virus in those people, it is pretty similar to the amount of virus in unvaccinated people," she said.
Mass. reports 1,207 new COVID-19 breakthrough cases in vaccinated individuals
A breakthrough case is when an individual tests positive for COVID-19 after they've been fully vaccinated against the disease.
www.wcvb.com
Last edited:
Red
Well-Known Member
The Washington Post obtained an internal document from the CDC, in which they acknowledge the Delta variant changes everything. This Washington Post article does not have a paywall….
The “unpublished data” mentioned is to be released in full Friday.
The delta variant of the coronavirus appears to cause more severe illness than earlier variants and spreads as easily as chickenpox, according to an internal federal health document that argues officials must “acknowledge the war has changed.”
The document is an internal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention slide presentation, shared within the CDC and obtained by The Washington Post. It captures the struggle of the nation’s top public health agency to persuade the public to embrace vaccination and prevention measures, including mask-wearing, as cases surge across the United States and new research suggests vaccinated people can spread the virus.
The document strikes an urgent note, revealing the agency knows it must revamp its public messaging to emphasize vaccination as the best defense against a variant so contagious that it acts almost like a different novel virus, leaping from target to target more swiftly than Ebola or the common cold.
It cites a combination of recently obtained, still-unpublished data from outbreak investigations and outside studies showing that vaccinated individuals infected with delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated. Vaccinated people infected with delta have measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated and infected with the variant.
The “unpublished data” mentioned is to be released in full Friday.
The delta variant of the coronavirus appears to cause more severe illness than earlier variants and spreads as easily as chickenpox, according to an internal federal health document that argues officials must “acknowledge the war has changed.”
The document is an internal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention slide presentation, shared within the CDC and obtained by The Washington Post. It captures the struggle of the nation’s top public health agency to persuade the public to embrace vaccination and prevention measures, including mask-wearing, as cases surge across the United States and new research suggests vaccinated people can spread the virus.
The document strikes an urgent note, revealing the agency knows it must revamp its public messaging to emphasize vaccination as the best defense against a variant so contagious that it acts almost like a different novel virus, leaping from target to target more swiftly than Ebola or the common cold.
It cites a combination of recently obtained, still-unpublished data from outbreak investigations and outside studies showing that vaccinated individuals infected with delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated. Vaccinated people infected with delta have measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated and infected with the variant.
Red
Well-Known Member
And now we know the fully vaccinated can easily spread it as well. And they are…..
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
They Spurned the Vaccine. Now They Want You to Know They Regret It. (Published 2021)
People who once rejected the vaccine or simply waited too long are now grappling with the consequences, often in raw, public ways.
“PROVO, Utah — As Mindy Greene spent another day in the Covid intensive care unit, listening to the whirring machines that now breathed for her 42-year-old husband, Russ, she opened her phone and tapped out a message.
“We did not get the vaccine,” she wrote on Facebook. “I read all kinds of things about the vaccine and it scared me. So I made the decision and prayed about it and got the impression that we would be ok.””
What if… social media isn’t a reliable source for medical information?
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
The thing to pay close attention to when the CDC releases data will be for any mention of the manufacturer of the vaccine. This is critically important. I’ve linked the study out of India being referenced in these pieces at the bottom of this post, but media coverage seems to be leaving out one of the central findings. Pfizer and Moderna are a LOT better than the AstraZeneca vaccine.
This is Figure 4a from that paper. What it shows is the neutralizing ability of antibodies from those vaccinated with AstraZeneca versus those vaccinated by Pfizer against WT (Wild Type aka the Original), B117 (the UK variant), and B1.617.2 (Delta variant). The Pfizer vaccine defense is more robust against the Delta variant than AstraZeneca is against anything including the original Wild Type.
The frightening viral load statistics for fully vaccinated people subsequently infected by the Delta variant are for people who received the AstraZeneca-Oxford COVISHIELD (ChAdOx-1) vaccine, and not the Pfizer vaccine. The AstraZeneca vaccine is not authorized for use in the United States, but the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine is extremely similar to the AstraZeneca one and could suffer from the same vulnerability to Delta variant.
Red
Well-Known Member
Here is the internal CDC document on breakthrough infections:
jazzVA
Well-Known Member
They’re some restaurants in this area that are requiring a vaccination card and they are doing hella business. It seems a significant number of people enjoy not being around anti-vax **** wits.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
You bring a lot of good **** to the table. And then this. Be better, man.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
Were you home-schooled? I’m actually curious.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
There have vaccine mandates for decades for children to be able to go public school. Vaccine mandates aren’t some new thing. Let’s keep pretending they are though and are taking away our freedoms.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
Sure vaccine mandates that are for clearly established long term proven childhood diseases. That’s entirely different than Covid vaccinations
Hax0rs
Banned
70 IQ in this reply @Wes Mantooth .
Keefe
Well-Known Member
Please expound.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
I came away with the same impression as Dr. Jha. The data shown in this presentation is far short of the scare mongering coming out of the media over the Delta variant. I even read an article yesterday on CNN at how the CDC is pissed at the media for blowing Delta variant into a bigger monster than it really is.
Here is the way I see this presentation:
Slide #1) Title
Slide #2) People are smart enough to recognize the contradicting messages. The exact same statistics used to scare people into masking can be used to imply the vaccines don’t work.
Slide #3) The vaccines work great! Go get vaccinated!
Slide #4) Data at first glance seems to show either waning protection from vaccines or increasing deadliness of newer variants, but makes clear in first bullet point that it only shows that more people are getting vaccinated so constants in protection and deadliness appear as a rising trend line. Slide #8 reinforces that vaccine protection isn’t waning.
Slide #5) Data collection protocols
Slide #6) Title
Slide #7) Baselines for non-Delta breakthrough cases.
Slide #8) No evidence of waning vaccine protection establishing any changes to metrics must be due to increased capability of variants.
Slide #9) Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are not quite as effective for immunocompromised people as they are for the general population but even for immunocompromised people they’re still extremely robust.
Slide #10) Protection from Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are again less effective for people of the age and health to be confined to nursing homes but even among those people the efficacy is 75%.
Slide #11) Example
Slide #12) Example with givens and result plot
Slide #13) Communication challenges
Slide #14) Title
Slide #15) Chart of transmissibly and deadliness. The most notable aspect is how much is not known as reflected by every other pathogen being a point while SARS-CoV-2 is represented by big boxes to represent possible ranges rather than definitive values.
Slide #16) Data from Indian study with AstraZeneca breakthrough I touched on in previous post.
Slide #17) Delta variant has lower Ct value than Alpha. This refers to how many times a sample must be run through an amplifier to see genetic values. The takeaway is that lower Ct (less amplification needed) equals more virus in sample. They also briefly mention the Barnstable County outbreak but I’ll talk about that is another post because there is good info there and they don’t include it here.
Slide #18) FINALLY SOME MEANINGFUL DATA!!!! Delta variant could be deadlier than the original Wild Type. It isn’t a lot and the sample sizes are small but the difference is statistically significant.
Slide #19) The only chart in this entire presentation that needs to be there. You could delete every other slide except this one and lose almost nothing. The protection against all SARS-CoV-2 including against the Delta variant provided by Pfizer vaccine is EXTREMELY good at preventing hospitalization or death. The Delta variant does seem slightly more able to give Pfizer vaccinated people a case of the sniffles than the original could (even there Pfizer does pretty good) but the odds of it putting you in the hospital is extremely low.
Slides #20 & #21) The “you must wear a mask to save your life” charts. They are the same slide except one says “wear a mask or die” in bold red print. All givens used to generate these charts are hypothetical and they don’t seem close to real world values because what we’re seeing in the UK would be impossible if that weren’t the case.
The above chart is for newly detected infections in the UK where close to 100% of all new cases were Delta variant. The UK got rid of their mask mandates and all night club restrictions on July 19. The 7-day average case rate was 46,000 per day. They ended masking and the 7-day average rate has fallen nearly in half to 28,463. In the UK, the highly virulent Delta variant is burning itself out without masks.