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CP3 on John Stockton

Handlogten's Heros said:
K... CP3 would get hurt trying to carry John's jock... his longevity is part of his greatness and part of the argument against CP. You want to argue CP's ceiling was better than John's go ahead.

John is an all-time great.
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You have a point there. He was durable and dependable.

Where's that video about Stockton's inability to use his left? You're not an all time great if the left half of the court is made of lava as far as you're concerned.
 
Alfalfa said:
There are no downvotes on this site, so I am going to go ahead and say Stockton was nothing special. A regular all star who happened to have played with an all time great scorer for thousands of games, inflating his assists. Probably the most overrated player of all time.
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Wow. Can’t believe we’re here arguing John Stockton’s greatness. This might be an all time low for this site.

And how did Karl Malone help him with becoming the all time leader in steals exactly? Arguably a more impressive feat than leading in assists.
 
The mailman said:
Wow. Can’t believe we’re here arguing John Stockton’s greatness. This might be an all time low for this site.

And how did Karl Malone help him with becoming the all time leader in steals exactly? Arguably a more impressive feat than leading in assists.
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Longevity. CP would have a similar number of steals had he played as many minutes.
 
Alfalfa said:
Longevity. CP would have a similar number of steals had he played as many minutes.
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Yeah, and Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady could have been all time greats too if not for injuries. So what’s your point? Longevity? That’s why Stockton is the all time leader in assists and steals? Sure that plays a part in it, but I think there’s much MUCH more to it than longevity. Come on man. Just stop.
 
Alfalfa said:
Nothing special as in just an all star, not an all time great. I bet CP would have 20k assists if he played with Karl for as many minutes as Stockton did.

And assists is already the most overrated stat out there.
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Alright get the **** in!
 
Eminence said:
You may not have picked up on it, but they don't like CP3 much 'round these parts ;)

Generalizing, but Jazz fans are way way up there on the homer list.
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Uh..... A huge jazz fan just said Stockton isn't special. Yep, what a Homer

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Eminence said:
You may not have picked up on it, but they don't like CP3 much 'round these parts ;)

Generalizing, but Jazz fans are way way up there on the homer list.
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I can't stand CP either. And I don't consider him an all time great. A player who was never in the top 5 in the NBA in any of his seasons, and never even made the NBA finals, is not an all time great.
 
The mailman said:
Yeah, and Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady could have been all time greats too if not for injuries. So what’s your point? Longevity? That’s why Stockton is the all time leader in assists and steals? Sure that plays a part in it, but I think there’s much MUCH more to it than longevity. Come on man. Just stop.
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The NBA has become more physically demanding, and serious injuries have become much more common. It's practically unheard of for anyone to play 10+ years without a major injury anymore. I don't think a regular all star level player should be considered one of the top 3 PGs of all time just because he played at a regular all star level for a very long time. KAT has never missed a game. If he keeps it up for 10 more years, even without significant improvement, his numbers will be gaudy. It doesn't change the fact he's just a borderline all star.

Someone mentioned Stockton's 61 TS%. That's elite, but it's on 13 ppg. Which is very much not elite. If John took more shots, both his TS% and his number of assists would've gone down, and it would have been better for the team.

For example, had the Jazz had an actual all time great PG, like Steph Curry, they would've won multiple championships. That's despite Curry only averaging 7 apg and missing a ton of time with injury.
 
Eminence said:
And was summarily crucified for his take...
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As would happen on any fan sight when a fan says that their hall of fame, record holding player wasn't special.

If he simply said Stockton was overrated you would probably have plenty of people agree or at least be ok with it.

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Alfalfa said:
I can't stand CP either. And I don't consider him an all time great. A player who was never in the top 5 in the NBA in any of his seasons, and never even made the NBA finals, is not an all time great.
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So at this point who are the All-time great PGs in your book? Magic/Curry/????
 
fishonjazz said:
As would happen on any fan sight when a fan says that their hall of fame, record holding player wasn't special.

If he simply said Stockton was overrated you would probably have plenty of people agree or at least be ok with it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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It was a mistake saying he wasn't special (a mistake as me purposely being annoying). Not special = just an all star. There's a handful of those every season. Most are not all time greats. Even if they play for a long time.
 
Alfalfa said:
The NBA has become more physically demanding, and serious injuries have become much more common. It's practically unheard of for anyone to play 10+ years without a major injury anymore. I don't think a regular all star level player should be considered one of the top 3 PGs of all time just because he played at a regular all star level for a very long time. KAT has never missed a game. If he keeps it up for 10 more years, even without significant improvement, his numbers will be gaudy. It doesn't change the fact he's just a borderline all star.

Someone mentioned Stockton's 61 TS%. That's elite, but it's on 13 ppg. Which is very much not elite. If John took more shots, both his TS% and his number of assists would've gone down, and it would have been better for the team.

For example, had the Jazz had an actual all time great PG, like Steph Curry, they would've won multiple championships. That's despite Curry only averaging 7 apg and missing a ton of time with injury.
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LeBron is truly only great cause his longevity.
How great would his numbers be if he were hurt allot and didn't enter the NBA until after a 4 year college career.

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Alfalfa said:
Isaiah Thomas (NBA champ), Nash (multiple MVPs). Maybe Robertson, but I wasn't born then, so I don't know much about him.
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No magic? His teammates must have been too good for him to qualify

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fishonjazz said:
As would happen on any fan sight when a fan says that their hall of fame, record holding player wasn't special.

If he simply said Stockton was overrated you would probably have plenty of people agree or at least be ok with it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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As I've offered that opinion myself several times on this site, I can assure you, Jazz fans are not 'ok with it'.
 
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