Dame Time

[margodydek]

Curious if Ainge will try and pull a Presti where he works two deals simultaneously and get all parties on board before pulling the trigger. Hypothetically let’s say he gets a deal to get Bridges from BKN (remember this is hypothetical). Do you think he could then get Lillard’s camp to agree to him coming here if he could pull that off?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Do you have any idea how much worse off we'd be if Mitchell demanded to be traded specifically to the Heat and only the Heat?

He didn't though... and never asked for a trade... has his whole prime in front of him... was reportedly fine sticking it out.

He also didn't give us extreme loyalty for 11 years so if we got to that point with Don (and owed him like 200M+ over 4 years in his 30s) I might have been okay with it.

If Portland trades Dame 2 years ago (a year early rather than a year late) then he might be more amenable to multiple places as he has more runway. He burns another year or two of his prime in Brooklyn and he can kiss his title contention dreams goodbye... I'm totally fine with him picking his spot.

Donovan did us a solid... I doubt he does that again.

 

[Jingled]

FWIW, IMO It's fine for Dame to ask out, in fact I think Portland was hoping he would, but it's not OK to have only one team you are willing to go to.

This. Especially when the one team that he's forcing his way to has so few assets. There are teams that would absolutely love to have Dame and have the assets to easily beat Miami's best offer but can't acquire him because they don't want to be stuck with a disgruntled star that doesn't want to be there. Miami's going to wind up getting one of the best players in the league without having to give up hardly anything.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And almost nobody views Portland taking the best deal they can get for Dame as a "problem" either. It is simple as that. Portland has no responsibility at all to send Dame to Miami, absolutely none. There will be no consequences for them at all should they choose to do so

There will be consequences... whether they are worth anything is up for debate. They can choose to move him wherever they want... just like he can choose to tell those places don't trade for me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Teams can unilaterally decide to trade a player whenever they want... ask Blake Griffin. I have no problem with a player who has given genuine effort and loyalty to a franchise for 11 years asking to be moved to one destination. The team can do whatever they like. If the offers are similar I would just route him to Miami... but go on ahead and do what you need to.

 

[MT Steve]

He didn't though... and never asked for a trade... has his whole prime in front of him... was reportedly fine sticking it out.

He also didn't give us extreme loyalty for 11 years so if we got to that point with Don (and owed him like 200M+ over 4 years in his 30s) I might have been okay with it.

If Portland trades Dame 2 years ago (a year early rather than a year late) then he might be more amenable to multiple places as he has more runway. He burns another year or two of his prime in Brooklyn and he can kiss his title contention dreams goodbye... I'm totally fine with him picking his spot.

Donovan did us a solid... I doubt he does that again.

None of that is the point.

You said teams do well when they trade away stars that demand to be traded.

My point is that isn't the case when they demand to be traded to one team and one team only - and that team has only garbage to offer relative to the type of hauls that could be gotten elsewhere.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Teams can unilaterally decide to trade a player whenever they want... ask Blake Griffin. I have no problem with a player who has given genuine effort and loyalty to a franchise for 11 years asking to be moved to one destination. The team can do whatever they like. If the offers are similar I would just route him to Miami... but go on ahead and do what you need to.

If offers are similar sure… that’s not the argument though.

 

[TheStormofWar]

So let's see. Last year, it was the Summer of Donovan. Is it the Summer of Donovan 2: Dame Time?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

None of that is the point.

You said teams do well when they trade away stars that demand to be traded.

They have done really well... KD to the Suns... Brooklyn did well. AD to the Lakers... Pels did well. Even though it was one team.

My point is that isn't the case when they demand to be traded to one team and one team only - and that team has only garbage to offer relative to the type of hauls that could be gotten elsewhere.

Probably not doing as well, but I doubt anyone in the league is viewing the Damian situation as a problem... "You mean that our extension rules created a situation where a team only got 11 super valuable years of service from a star who then asked to be moved to one team and only got 2-3 firsts and a couple good young prospects.... GASP... CHANGE ALL TEH RULEZ!!!"

What Portland gets in the trade is as much of a function of selling a year too late instead of a year early and not reading the market properly, as it is Damian deciding he only has one team on his list. Had they looked around and said... "hey this ain't working lets go to market with Lillard" they might get the mega-deal or have a bunch of different options. The destination he picked has about as much as any contender has to offer in a trade right now. More than the Lakers, Clippers, Suns, Bucks, Nuggets, and Sixers? can offer. Celtics can offer Brown but not sure they do that even if they were on the list. You don't get a prime return on your premium assets unless you time the market perfectly like Presti and Ainge.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So let's see. Last year, it was the Summer of Donovan. Is it the Summer of Donovan 2: Dame Time?

Next year is "The Summer of Donovan 3: Get Donny to NY!"

 

[MT Steve]

They have done really well... KD to the Suns... Brooklyn did well. AD to the Lakers... Pels did well. Even though it was one team.

Probably not doing as well, but I doubt anyone in the league is viewing the Damian situation as a problem... "You mean that our extension rules created a situation where a team only got 11 super valuable years of service from a star who then asked to be moved to one team and only got 2-3 firsts and a couple good young prospects.... GASP... CHANGE ALL TEH RULEZ!!!"

What Portland gets in the trade is as much of a function of selling a year too late instead of a year early and not reading the market properly, as it is Damian deciding he only has one team on his list. Had they looked around and said... "hey this ain't working lets go to market with Lillard" they might get the mega-deal or have a bunch of different options. The destination he picked has about as much as any contender has to offer in a trade right now. More than the Lakers, Clippers, Suns, Bucks, Nuggets, and Sixers? can offer. Celtics can offer Brown but not sure they do that even if they were on the list. You don't get a prime return on your premium assets unless you time the market perfectly like Presti and Ainge.

I don't know why you're bringing up timing when the situation would have been the same last year if Dame demanded a trade specifically to a team with a mostly empty coffer of assets.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't know why you're bringing up timing when the situation would have been the same last year if Dame demanded a trade specifically to a team with a mostly empty coffer of assets.

Because there may be more teams with full coffers. I would have looked at it 1-2 years ago... I've consistently been in the corner of "you'd rather trade a guy a year early than a year late". Which contender has more to offer than Miami? Typically only contenders bid on players in their 30s on huge contracts. To expect a Gobert return (it was an outlier) or a Donovan return is a bit optimistic given the market is turning and bunch of teams have already pushed in. Even if you compare Herro, 3 firsts, and Jacquez/Jovic... its not far off the Donovan trade. Lauri blew up but if he had just been Cleveland Lauri then how far off is the best Miami package?

If you want to maximize the return on a Lillard deal you trade him when there are contenders with a bunch of assets ready to bid... the market is not frothy right now. The Suns for example after the KD thing falls through... If Portland says 4 firsts and swaps plus CP3 for Lillard you think Dame makes a stink?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we had given it one more year of Rudy and Don our return would have been like 60-70% of what we got. Part of that is a thirsty market... part finding a sucker (Minny).

 

[MT Steve]

Because there may be more teams with full coffers. I would have looked at it 1-2 years ago... I've consistently been in the corner of "you'd rather trade a guy a year early than a year late". Which contender has more to offer than Miami? Typically only contenders bid on players in their 30s on huge contracts. To expect a Gobert return (it was an outlier) or a Donovan return is a bit optimistic given the market is turning and bunch of teams have already pushed in. Even if you compare Herro, 3 firsts, and Jacquez/Jovic... its not far off the Donovan trade. Lauri blew up but if he had just been Cleveland Lauri then how far off is the best Miami package?

If you want to maximize the return on a Lillard deal you trade him when there are contenders with a bunch of assets ready to bid... the market is not frothy right now. The Suns for example after the KD thing falls through... If Portland says 4 firsts and swaps plus CP3 for Lillard you think Dame makes a stink?

I feel like you're ignoring the part where he's demanding a trade to one specific team only.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I feel like you're ignoring the part where he's demanding a trade to one specific team only.

I feel like you are hyper focused on that and not actually reading the responses... What if Dame opens it up to 5 other teams... Denver, Milwaukee, Phoenix and the LA teams... that's 6 teams... is the offer getting any better?

 

[MT Steve]

I feel like you are hyper focused on that and not actually reading the responses... What if Dame opens it up to 5 other teams... Denver, Milwaukee, Phoenix and the LA teams... that's 6 teams... is the offer getting any better?

... You do realize the entire issue I and many others you're arguing with have is that Dame requested a trade to one specific team, right?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

... You do realize the entire issue I and many others you're arguing with have is that Dame requested a trade to one specific team, right?

You do realize there is more nuance and he could open the trade request to the teams mentioned and the offers wouldn't improve... right?

 

[MT Steve]

You do realize there is more nuance and he could open the trade request to the teams mentioned and the offers wouldn't improve... right?

Wasn't it you just the other day that argued how it would be GM suicide to trade for Dame if he doesn't want to come?

And now you're saying him demanding a trade to a specific team is having no impact on the offers Portland is getting elsewhere?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Wasn't it you just the other day that argued how it would be GM suicide to trade for Dame if he doesn't want to come?

Ummm GM suicide maybe not but to come over the top of Miami's best offer with something that got accepted would be risky as hell and have huge opportunity to backfire.

And now you're saying him demanding a trade to a specific team is having no impact on the offers Portland is getting elsewhere?

It no doubt is having some impact on the offers vs Dame saying something like "trade me anywhere but Portland". That is an unreasonable expectation. Do you expect him to feel great about being traded to Detroit or Houston? Nah. He's requesting out to get to an obviously better situation... so you can scratch like 10-12 teams from the potential list right now.

He's picking one franchise but if Portland swung a deal with LA or GS you think he doesn't show up? He's looking at the landscape of where he can actually go and picking one team. How many teams does he need to name to make it an acceptable request? Why should he accept coming to Utah? We aren't a contender with him... Brooklyn has eyes on Donny supposedly so may not even make a big offer. He picked a reasonable destination given the opportunity to win and the actual possibility of a trade. You can put Milwaukee, Boston, GS, LA teams, Denver, Phoenix on that list if you want... likely not changing the offer.

I'm simply pushing back on the narrative that Dame is screwing Portland... he is not. His market was always going to be limited. If they had tried to do this last year maybe there is a couple of additional destinations that are acceptable. Him picking Miami is basically saying "hey Brooklyn and Utah... no thanks". I know he said he wouldn't want to go to Boston... but if they decided to offer Brown he's have a shot at a title and likely passes off on it. I doubt they actually do that.

 

[framer]

I feel like you are hyper focused on that and not actually reading the responses... What if Dame opens it up to 5 other teams... Denver, Milwaukee, Phoenix and the LA teams... that's 6 teams... is the offer getting any better?

Yes, because we don't know what the ACTUAL Miami offer is. Opening it up to more teams gives many more options to get a deal with three team trades. Maybe no one is interested in Tyler Herro for a first, but they might be interested in some of the Clippers pieces. Competition makes Miami cough up their max offer.

I also like how you left off Philly and Boston (better championship contenders than some of your other teams) who could absolutely come up with better offers than Miami's best offer.