What's new

Game Thread Dec 20, 2023 05:00PM MT: Jazz at Cavaliers

Added to Calendar: 12-20-23

Hopefully it's just some nagging injury.

I don't think he has a KAT mindset. He just has no confidence in his ability to go through defenders. He's too aware of his limitations to a detrimental extent.
Hopefully so. I'm not out on him, but he needs to start changing the way he plays before he gets stuck on playing this way forever. I mean he doesnt dunk if there is even the slightest chance someone can contest, which is the thing I hate the most.
 
Hopefully so. I'm not out on him, but he needs to start changing the way he plays before he gets stuck on playing this way forever. I mean he doesnt dunk if there is even the slightest chance someone can contest, which is the thing I hate the most.
Yeah, totally agree with the lat sentence. Its maddening. Having a no skill rim runner is a lot less fun when they don't occasionally dunk all over someone.
 
Didn't the Jazz just watch a Kings player go nuts and did the team learn nothing from that?
No they didn't learn from it. How do you stop a hot catch-and-shoot player? You take the catch away from him. Good coaches recognize it early and glue a player on a hot catch-and-shoot player to limit the damage. Hardy did put Sexton to chase Merrill, but it was too late - the damage had already been done by that point.
 
Also if this gamethread taught me anything its that HH can go full Cy if he wants to, and drop all objectivity in favor of being biased.
Bout time someone sees this I’ve been the voice of reason this year. I’m not right about everything, but on the most important things I have been. I told y’all we shouldn’t trade for Collins, I was shot down, then we traded for him, and now most are with me that was a mistake. I said we need to trade JC and certainly not start him. I was scoffed at, then proven right. Most on here thought we were a fringe playoff team, I said pump the breaks… that we aren’t that good. I was proven right. Then I said we should openly rank and get our pick back. I will be proven right, and @Handlogten's Heros has been there at every turn trying to shut me down, he has been and will continue to be proven wrong.
 
No they didn't learn from it. How do you stop a hot catch-and-shoot player? You take the catch away from him. Good coaches recognize it early and glue a player on a hot catch-and-shoot player to limit the damage. Hardy did put Sexton to chase Merrill, but it was too late - the damage had already been done by that point.
The zone isn’t working, but in spurts. It’s something I’ve always felt should be used as another look but in spurts. IMO man should be the philosophy for every team and use zone as a change up ploy in spurts.
 
If someone needs to be called out its Kessler, Ochai and Dunn. Inconsistency is one thing but I dont really know what those three contributed this game, as it sure wasnt scoring, rebounding or defense. Its amazing how 3 guys who combined to be 75% from the field also combined to score just 21 points in 60 combined minutes. I also swear to god Sexton did not pass the ball to anyone but Walker all night. His vision was so glued to the rim that it sort of makes sense that he didnt see anyone except the guy who was there.

I say the biggest reason we lost this was losing the offensive rebound battle 6 to 14. Shouldnt happen when they were without Mobley and Allen got just 8 total boards.... but it did. I mean the one thing we have done well this year was the thing that failed us. They beat us in 2nd chance points 23 to 9 which is more than the difference in the scoreboard, when we should have beaten them on that stat quite clearly.

Refs also sucked and they were super weird about completely ignoring moving screens and calling fouls on players going around them. Did it to both teams though. I swear Tristan Thompson didnt set his feet for even a second on few of his screens but our guards got the foul calls trying to go around those.
Kessler is what he is at this point in his development. He's a great rim protector but still lacks physicality. When he fights for rebounds or waits for a pass under the rim, I'd like to see him to use his body to push defenders away and off balance. Also, I'd like to see him develop his short-distance shot similar to what Allen has.

As for Dunn, I feel Hardy should use him much more. He's the only player we have who can defend well at the perimeter. His role is not to score but to defend and facilitate.

Ochai didn't get to touch the ball much because our iso guards did their thing. He only played about 16 minutes. His role is to defend, shoot 3s, and run for quick transition buckets.
 
Bout time someone sees this I’ve been the voice of reason this year. I’m not right about everything, but on the most important things I have been. I told y’all we shouldn’t trade for Collins, I was shot down, then we traded for him, and now most are with me that was a mistake. I said we need to trade JC and certainly not start him. I was scoffed at, then proven right. Most on here thought we were a fringe playoff team, I said pump the breaks… that we aren’t that good. I was proven right. Then I said we should openly rank and get our pick back. I will be proven right, and @Handlogten's Heros has been there at every turn trying to shut me down, he has been and will continue to be proven wrong.
Wut? I was against Collins from the get go. When healthy we are a 30 winish team… been where I have been since day 1. Not sure why @HermanG is going at me without tagging me… not sure why you are quite literally throwing dirt on my takes that quite literally never existed but go ahead and look stuff up if you’d like.
 
Also if this gamethread taught me anything its that HH can go full Cy if he wants to, and drop all objectivity in favor of being biased.
Post receipts and tag me or stfu
 
As long as Collins keeps hitting his 3 I'm happy. At the end of the day, him continuing to be a near 40% 3pt shooter is his only path to trade value. It might not be this year, but eventually some team will see a 6'9 guy who rebounds and hit 40% from 3 and will take him. Just got to get an itty bitty bump on volume.
 
As long as Collins keeps hitting his 3 I'm happy. At the end of the day, him continuing to be a near 40% 3pt shooter is his only path to trade value. It might not be this year, but eventually some team will see a 6'9 guy who rebounds and hit 40% from 3 and will take him. Just got to get an itty bitty bump on volume.
Park him in the corner where he’s 48% as of yesterday. Hit the offensive glass… sneak in an occasional back door alley oop.
 
Post receipts and tag me or stfu
Sure. Collins had 16 points and 5 boards in just 22 minutes with 62/50/100 shooting, and this is the bulk of your game thread analysis:

Shocked that Dunn Collins PnR ended in a turnover
Collins sucks da poopy
But what if we can get a 12 foot contested hook turnaround thing?
I’m just a pickup ball guy and that plays in rec leagues… I’m a guard… I look more comfortable in the post than John Collins.
THT and John Collins screen and roll yields a THT middy.

I wonder why Hardy isn’t running more of these actions?
So imagine instead of spending 3/80 on Collins if we’d have spent 4/70 on Strus. That is the “cost” of the Collins deal.
Dunn +Collins = **** offense
Bruh I just watched John Collins make two dribble moves that even Tay Henny thinks were some JV ********.
No sir… when you spin yourself to the ground twice in a row that is a you problem.
No… John tried to dribble into a crowd and committed two awful turnovers that were high comedy. Stahp
We could have offered a few million more per season and had him no problem. Cavs had to Jimmy rig a sign and trade to get him. I don’t want to hear about how Collins was free.
 
Sure. Collins had 16 points and 5 boards in just 22 minutes with 62/50/100 shooting, and this is the bulk of your game thread analysis:
He shot a terrible turnaround and the PnR comments are because of a conversation some of us had about how to best use Collins. I don't think his pick and roll works. He had two very bad turnovers in a stretch of like 60 seconds... apologies for commenting on that.

Strus was a prime example of the "cost of Collins" that I had thrown out... my apologies for pointing out his play and how much better a use of cap space that would have been... we only play them twice a year. Wanted to point it out as we were all staring at it.

Yes Collins ended up with fine individual numbers and was -16 for the game... a trend that has existed all season. You want me to give him a cookie or something? I make observations during the game... early I made a comment about THT on his ******** again and then he got pulled from the game for bad shot selection... never circled back to tell him how awesome he was later... my bad. My attention to the game changes depending on what is going on around me. Its not bias to call things out as you see them in real time.
 
Judging by this game thread, it looks like this season is taking a toll on people lol. But hey, that's more legit than the crowd who is concerned about being too "mean" or whatever lol.

That was a miserable performance by the bench unit. They were turning it over like crazy. It's a good thing that the young guys are getting playing time though.....right?
 
He shot a terrible turnaround and the PnR comments are because of a conversation some of us had about how to best use Collins. I don't think his pick and roll works. He had two very bad turnovers in a stretch of like 60 seconds... apologies for commenting on that.

Strus was a prime example of the "cost of Collins" that I had thrown out... my apologies for pointing out his play and how much better a use of cap space that would have been... we only play them twice a year. Wanted to point it out as we were all staring at it.

Yes Collins ended up with fine individual numbers and was -16 for the game... a trend that has existed all season. You want me to give him a cookie or something? I make observations during the game... early I made a comment about THT on his ******** again and then he got pulled from the game for bad shot selection... never circled back to tell him how awesome he was later... my bad. My attention to the game changes depending on what is going on around me. Its not bias to call things out as you see them in real time.
Its not bias to call things out, but thats 11 negative posts spread out all over the thread. Now you play a gradeschool level "I wasnt paying attention to everything" card while simultaneously digging your heels in deeper with the BPM comment.

Also about Strus... like are you 100% sure he played better in that game than Collins? I wasnt analyzing him that closely but box score seems to suggest he didnt. Team worst -5 BPM, 5 turnovers, 3 PF, 40% shooting and just 18/4/4 in 10 more minutes with 0 stocks. Furthermore, are even you 100% sure he has had a positive impact on the Cavs, who have gone backwards from last year?
 
Whining about posting about the game in the game thread is something I will never ever understand.
 
Its not bias to call things out, but thats 11 negative posts spread out all over the thread. Now you play a gradeschool level "I wasnt paying attention to everything" card while simultaneously digging your heels in deeper with the BPM comment.

Several of those were responses to @Saint Cy of JFC putting Collins turnovers on Dunn. I quite literally have a life. So yeah I watched part of the game closely... had to drive home and missed part of it. Had to go pickup a kid at gymnastics... so I watch in segments and miss stuff... I also half watch other parts of the game as I have to walk around to let the dog out and ****. I guess that makes me grade school though.

The PnR comments weren't even negative. I wanted to note when I saw them as those stats aren't kept. It was a discussion we had earlier and I just wanted to see what happens in those actions. Those aren't John's fault.

Sorry I commented on a terrible post up he had and 2 terrible turnovers that stuck out to me. I'll do better to be fair and balanced.
Also about Strus... like are you 100% sure he played better in that game than Collins? I wasnt analyzing him that closely but box score seems to suggest he didnt. Team worst -5 BPM, 5 turnovers, 3 PF, 40% shooting and just 18/4/4 in 10 more minutes with 0 stocks. Furthermore, are even you 100% sure he has had a positive impact on the Cavs, who have gone backwards from last year?
I'm 100% sure he is a better asset and use of space. He also was playing pg at times due to injuries lol. He's a much more flexible piece and better value contract. That's again another discussion I've had with other posters.
 
Colins had like 3 bad plays, but other than that I thought he was solid out there.

I have a much bigger issue with Dunn. He just has no offensive ability. I'm glad he's at least hitting these wide open 3's. At least teams are really starting to cover Collins more in the corner. Dunn is just a total offense ruiner.
 
I don’t think I’d trade Collins for Strus right now. HH’s premise of what he is trying to say is correct but Strus isn’t the best example in my opinion.
 
Whining about posting about the game in the game thread is something I will never ever understand.
I really wasn't trying to kill Collins on the PnR stuff either. Was simply noting when I saw it as tracking only does so much. I don't think he received the ball on any of the plays... he also wasn't rolling particularly hard.
 
Top