Game Thread Dec 26, 2023 06:00PM MT: Jazz at Spurs

[HermanG]

For the whole season I would agree. Yesterday he put in zero effort, completely gave up on multiple plays and simple gifted the Spurs buckets. Even veterans/starters on many NBA teams would have gotten benched, no matter what, for such awful lack of any interest.

That is just so far from the truth. If you want to push that narrative, then explain this play:

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Why is the no effort guy the only one giving any effort while 4 statues specatate?

 

[fishonjazz]

Hardy scoffed both Keyonte and Clarkson after that play... I dont know if you both were watching the Jazz feed but in the Spurs feed the announcers said: "Will Hardy is nonplussed right now. He is not happy with the effort they are giving." The cameras didn't catch it, but it doesnt mean it didnt happen.

Besides what Sexton did was WAY worse (intentional showboating in a close game with 20 minutes left). Every single coach in the league goes super hard on their players if they do that, and some would just bench the guy without giving him another minute.

Lol. Hardy didn't scream at sexton for the dunk. It was later in the game for a minor thing.

 

[Tanktastic]

Sexton got the timeout called and screamed at not for the dunk, but for being a half-step too far from Vassell and allowing a catch & shoot 3. Which happened half an hour later than the dunk. And is something (a small slip-up on D) happens dozens of times in a game.

 

[Tanktastic]

That is just so far from the truth. If you want to push that narrative, then explain this play:

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Why is the no effort guy the only one giving any effort while 4 statues specatate?

Dude....

George completely misses his man running past him, because he's giving zero effort. If Wemby had given a half-competent pass that's on easy bucket.

The wings have their own players guarded, Lauri has Wemby, obviously. And George has to track Sochan on that play and simply does nothing.

 

[fishonjazz]

Sexton got the timeout called and screamed at not for the dunk, but for being a half-step too far from Vassell and allowing a catch & shoot 3. Which happened half an hour later than the dunk. And is something (a small slip-up on D) happens dozens of times in a game.

Ya, this.

 

[fishonjazz]

That is just so far from the truth. If you want to push that narrative, then explain this play:

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.

www.nba.com

Why is the no effort guy the only one giving any effort while 4 statues specatate?

That was a weird to play to show if you are trying to show good defense by Keyonte. He left his man (who got an easy layup attempt) to guard a horrible shooter at the 3 point line who was already going to be guarded by Lauri anyway. I guess you could say it showed effort on that play but it was bad defense and deserves some criticism from coach tbh.

 

[fishonjazz]

Jazz shot 91% from the line last night. 20-22

 

[HermanG]

Dude....

George completely misses his man running past him, because he's giving zero effort. If Wemby had given a half-competent pass that's on easy bucket.

The wings have their own players guarded, Lauri has Wemby, obviously. And George has to track Sochan on that play and simply does nothing.

Dude....

Previous possession:



Thats Vassell he is defending and he tracks Vassell to the corner. How is he on Sochan on the next possessions (Clarkson is on Sochan here)?

Its a zone look where George defends PoA. Lauri is probably coming up to switch since its Wemby who takes the point but there is no way you put Sochans cut on Keyonte's responsibility in that play.

 

[fishonjazz]

Spurs shot 46% from 3. Pretty impressive that the jazz still beat them. I know they suck but when teams shoot almost 50% from three they usually win.

 

[fishonjazz]

Dude....

Previous possession:

View attachment 15643

Thats Vassell he is defending and he tracks Vassell to the corner. How is he on Sochan on the next possessions (Clarkson is on Sochan here)?

Its a zone look where George defends PoA. Lauri is probably coming up to switch since its Wemby who takes the point but there is no way you put Sochans cut on Keyonte's responsibility in that play.

In a semi fast break situation like the the play you posted you usually guard the man closest to you. Sure looked like george was supposed to guard the dude right in front of him rather than the 7 foot bad shooter who was farther away and not a threat. You might be right about how hardy wanted him to defend that play but the reason it didn't work is because george went away from the dude who he was right by to guard another dude who was already guarded and wasn't a threat. Again, maybe it was by design. Horrible design if thats the case.

After watching it again and pausing and playing to slow it down I could see how that was Lauris fault. I dont think a single play in an entire season tells us much of anything about a player though to be honest so Im not entirely sure why you posted it.

 

[HermanG]

That was a weird to play to show if you are trying to show good defense by Keyonte. He left his man (who got an easy layup attempt) to guard a horrible shooter at the 3 point line who was already going to be guarded by Lauri anyway. I guess you could say it showed effort on that play but it was bad defense and deserves some criticism from coach tbh.

It wasnt about showing good defense. I never said he played good defese. It was to counter his "zero effort" point.

 

[HermanG]

In a semi fast break situation like the the play you posted you usually guard the man closest to you. Sure looked like george was supposed to guard the dude right in front of him rather than the 7 foot bad shooter who was farther away and not a threat. You might be right about how hardy wanted him to defend that play but the reason it didn't work is because george went away from the dude who he was right by to guard another dude who was already guarded and wasn't a threat. Again, maybe it was by design. Horrible design if thats the case.

Again, I never argued good defense. I said he makes a lot of mistakes. I argued his "zero effort" claim which is just so far from truth.

You are standing on the wrong side of this unless you also think George puts in zero effort.

 

[fishonjazz]

Again, I never argued good defense. I said he makes a lot of mistakes. I argued his "zero effort" claim which is just so far from truth.

You are standing on the wrong side of this unless you also think George puts in zero effort.

I think he plays with effort for sure. I dont think that play demonstrates much though either way. Its not like he is running all over the place and diving for loose balls on that play or something.
I do think he plays hard on both ends though. He has tons of energy and even on the play where he showed no effort and got all the criticism I think that is a play that he figured was an easy layup and his effort wouldn't have mattered and I think most players would have done the same thing he did.

 

[Tanktastic]

Dude....

Previous possession:



Thats Vassell he is defending and he tracks Vassell to the corner. How is he on Sochan on the next possessions (Clarkson is on Sochan here)?

Its a zone look where George defends PoA. Lauri is probably coming up to switch since its Wemby who takes the point but there is no way you put Sochans cut on Keyonte's responsibility in that play.

Because playing man doesn't mean you follow the same player around on every single play, especially in transition. That would be beyond stupid.

And he isn't on Vassell, but Wesley.

Also, if the Jazz played man the previous possession, man every possession after that one and the four other players are playing man... I would think it's pretty safe to say they weren't playing zone and George was the only player to know it.

Lauri could theoretically pick up Sochan even if that's not what he's supposed to do. And then you'd have George on Wemby, Lauri on Sochan - and that's a bad recipe.

 

[Tanktastic]

And, at no point was I talking about anything other than last night's game. I've not thought he doesn't play hard after any game before, I think. Last night he played with zero effort, and Hardy let him get away with it.

 

[HermanG]

After watching it again and pausing and playing to slow it down I could see how that was Lauris fault. I dont think a single play in an entire season tells us much of anything about a player though to be honest so Im not entirely sure why you posted it.

Definitely not... and that was a confusing set they put out with Vassell in the corner and Wemby at the point....George is not good on defense but calling him "zero effort" and "no defense" was just too rich. He also took Sochans drive to the chest when he wasnt the one defending him. Got called for a blocking foul but could have gone the other way as well.

 

[HermanG]

Because playing man doesn't mean you follow the same player around on every single play, especially in transition. That would be beyond stupid.

And he isn't on Vassell, but Wesley.

Also, if the Jazz played man the previous possession, man every possession after that one and the four other players are playing man... I would think it's pretty safe to say they weren't playing zone and George was the only player to know it.

Lauri could theoretically pick up Sochan even if that's not what he's supposed to do. And then you'd have George on Wemby, Lauri on Sochan - and that's a bad recipe.

Oh yeah my bad that was 14. not 24. However that was his guy, not Sochan.

Also it was transition defense which is why I said zone look, not zone defense. You run back to a zone formation and pickup the guy at your position and manage switches later. Thats a very basic thing to do if the opponent pushes the pace and you have to run back to stay in front of them. George took the position on Wemby when Sochan was still jogging as you can see from here:


Regardless, we are not talking about who plays good or bad defense here. We are talking about effort, and that was the reason I posted that video.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Coaches care more about game plan mistakes than they do errors.

Keyonte throwing a ****** pass is an error. Sexton not executing the defensive game plan because he loves to go off script is a game plan mistake.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Has anything come out about why THT didnt play?

He wasnt super active during warmups and I didnt see him at the half-time warmups.

 

[fishonjazz]

Coaches care more about game plan mistakes than they do errors.

Keyonte throwing a ****** pass is an error. Sexton not executing the defensive game plan because he loves to go off script is a game plan mistake.

Any evidence of sexton going of script on the play the he was yelled at for?
This is what tanktastic posted: Sexton got the timeout called and screamed at not for the dunk, but for being a half-step too far from Vassell and allowing a catch & shoot 3.
Being a half step too far from his man isn't going off script imo, and like tanktastic said is something that happens dozens of times in a game.