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Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

I actually do remember "Whitewater" as it was run out with weak coverage in mostly derided alternative media, and largely ignored by establishment media and politicians and lost in legal maneuverings.

I just don't know what to say to his level of delusion. Six years of investigation, a couple of dozen convictions, an impeachment of Clinton over a side issue, and you think it was not covered widely and "lost". It's sad, really.
 
They have a paywall, but they allow a few free articles a month, and this one is a doozy, lol.

The failing New York Times! Curse their bloody eyes!

America first!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

Mr. Trump won the presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump, provided almost no financial help.

But The Times’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential tax returns and financial records, reveals that Mr. Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

Much of this money came to Mr. Trump because he helped his parents dodge taxes. He and his siblings set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars in gifts from their parents, records and interviews show. Records indicate that Mr. Trump helped his father take improper tax deductions worth millions more. He also helped formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents’ real estate holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on tax returns, sharply reducing the tax bill when those properties were transferred to him and his siblings.
 
God, @babe, it's simple. Mueller has Manafort by the balls. Manafort and his attorney sits down with Mueller's team and says "this is what we can offer by way of information you may find useful in your investigation". Mueller then agrees to drop 6 of 8 charges against Manafort, and also argue for a more lenient sentence. The question then becomes what information would Manafort offer that would cause Mueller to be that generous?

Normally, a prosecutor is using smaller fish to get at bigger fish. It does not have to be the case that that bigger fish is Trump. Could be his son Don Jr. Might be Kushner. Might be both. I don't know. There is no way I can know. But the terms of the plea deal, apparently worded as well in a manner making a Trump pardon more problematic, simply suggests Manafort offered information considered highly valuable by Mueller.

Yet, you cannot admit what is obvious. As for Mueller headed for jail, of course that's absurd. You have one of the most honorable public servants fleeing the country? I wish you would not talk like a crazy man, you make it all but impossible to take you seriously. I'm not even saying Trump will be nailed for anything by Mueller. But for certain Robert Mueller is not going to be charged with anything and he will never be fleeing the United States for any reason.

Well, I guess on that last note, I'm speechless. You're enveloped in the world of conspiracy theories. You are simply not rational. By my own admission, I am overly rational. That can be a problem at times as well. Maybe it makes it harder for me to lighten up at times. But, for sure I can't be expected to discuss any subject with somebody as irrational as yourself. I accept that I can never expect a straight answer from you. I can only expect paranoid delusions. Sorry that's the case, but without a doubt it is the case.

I guess nobody reads your swill. My one-time best girl got me to do a speed reading course, which.... as a wannabe "scientist", I found to be a fraudulent sort of reading..... requires one to pick up about one word per line and fill in the drift with "enlightenment" of some sort, and then pat yourself on the back for knowing everything.

But you did drop the "paranoid delusions" and confirm it as beyond doubt the case. That's a personal attack without any corroboration. But I have so little paranoia my lack of concern for what others think is sometimes mistaken as amounting to having absolutely "no self-awareness". I think that you and bullet, for example, are nice enough guys overall perhaps I should just wonder why you see me in such terms. No doubt, it's not ill-will. You are not enemies of any kind. You are just simple believers in some other ideas.

you have joined bullet in the regular line up of folks whose answer to every dissenting voice or question about facts as some kind of "conspiracy", and of course anyone who doesn't think the way you do is simply "irrational". Such tendencies, I submit, are precursors to liberal paranoia.... the kind that gets Hillary worked up to declare her opposition to be "deplorables" or "a vast right-wing conspiracy" against her personally.

I don't see a basis for believing anything you say is "rational". You believe what you read in a bought-and-paid for yellow journalism clique of "approved" high priests of American culture who have been piling on lie after lie for decades in the pursuit of some "progressive" world view.

You follow a political belief system that has developed from the 1840s in the pursuit of a secular, elitist-managed world. You are driven by fears about climate change, resource depletion, overpopulation, and populist uprisings that can be "bumps in the road" to progress.

It's no great "conspiracy" when there are thousands of books and tons of literature documenting "social progress" along the way, and where the leading lights of the movement have been literally famous for their leadership.

Donald Trump, a one-time donor to the likes of Hillary Clinton, who really does not want to prosecute his opponents even for serious crimes because he considers it "divisive" and he just really doesn't need to do it for any personal interest. I mean he hardly even cares to be President. It's a side-line in his career, in his view. He'd like to do a little to "give back" to the country that made his success possible. He'd like to see us be successful. He'd like our nation to be the leader towards a more prospering world.

In his vision, the possible prospering world begins with traditional American values such as the rule of law, basic human rights, national security, and unfettered opportunity. He want's less government meddling in people's lives. He wants less foreign interest or meddling in our politics, less "globalism" in ways that translate into stupid trade deals and other actions that empower our competitors in various arenas. But he would be pleased as punch to see other countries pick up on our system of successful values.

He sees it as a problem that China has essentially nationalized business interests controlled in a first level analysis by the Chinese military. The Red Army owns it's industrial base, including computer businesses. It has been out for a few years already that the Chinese computer manufacturers were trying to develop a way to spy on everyone. And developing "social media" feedback systems that modulate society towards desired objectives.... objectives desireable to the Red Army, that is.

Chinese social values include duty to country above any personal value, reflexive compliance by individuals with government dictates and no objection to stated national policies or objectives.

The method of working towards these values has included buying stock in managerially-significant proportions in American media.… our newspapers and TV, our entertainment giants, and our social media giants. Today, Chinese representatives sitting on boards of directors are actively influencing all of our mainstream giant media retailers.

I am one who questions, one who analyzes what is happening, and who works on understanding how and why it is happening.

You and others, perhaps many others, are simply reactive tools usefully managed by superior intellects.... elitists.... .

We have our own onshore "globalists", and we are in many ways part of the British "globalist" crowd, with national self-identity of a rather remarkably British Commonwealth set of interests. I think the Russians and Chinese are intellectually superior to our leadership in practical terms, and I see a world to be that is more controlled by Chinese values.

Chinese values ride pretty hard on our ideas, coming from the Magna Carta through our Constitution, about human rights and the way government should work. In China, it's one-man rule. Simple enough for any judicious human to comply with..... but not really all that beneficial to mankind.

I think you and others here in JFC should join me in taking a fresh look at what is going on, and decide to keep America a strong country with an intact political process that encourages freedom.
 
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I think you must be drunk tonight. Bye.

I thought I saw a post by Stoked in response to this that was actually reasonable. I was thinking that because of the difficulty I thought was apparent in his previous few responses. Not clear. Not getting what I said. Anyway, it's no great crime. We've had some drunks in here from time to time and generally it's not all bad, and sometimes fun. I could use a slice of real life myself.

I don't drink alcohol, but maybe the Mountain Dew gets to me sometimes..... lol. Gotta keep that under control. High blood sugar levels are harmful, they affect your reasoning skills and willingness to do dumb stuff.

I generally ignore people who just don't wanna laugh at me, and throw out serious or seriously-intended insults. Sometimes it's because they truly just lack the intellectual hardware to follow a complex sentence. Sometimes, I suppose, it's because while otherwise intelligent enough, they have really bought some sort of world view or philosophy or political cause and swallowed it so completely they could just hate anyone who laughs at them.

And I am always here, just laughing.
 
But you did drop the "paranoid delusions" and confirm it as beyond doubt the case. That's a personal attack without any corroboration

No, no, no, my dear fellow. That's not a personal attack at all. I simply think you have issues, and I am doing you a disservice with long replies to your inscrutable screeds. The good news is I intend to leave you alone. I need to show more compassion toward you, not pick on you all the time. I wish you continued improvement. I bid you anon, my dear fellow.

I can't believe I'm still up at this late hour.
 
I just don't know what to say to his level of delusion. Six years of investigation, a couple of dozen convictions, an impeachment of Clinton over a side issue, and you think it was not covered widely and "lost". It's sad, really.

It never touched the Clintons. The "impeachment" failed, and essentially put a stamp of official societal approval on politicians with inadequate sexual inhibitions. Sure, Hillary threw some folks under her bus to make issues go away, but no way was it ever really gonna touch the Clintons.

Perhaps you are so stolidly immersed in your own views you simply cannot identify the views of others for what they are. Some Americans were noticing dead bodies at every turn where the Clintons could have been seriously proven outtabounds. Conservatives usually understate their concerns about stuff like that. Many more Americans were just wondering about why we let the Chinese get our missile technology..... Bill could charm his critics pretty damn quick with his boyish beamish good nature.

I knew from the early 1980s that the Clintons had been tagged for a meteoric rise to prominence by the NPR and PBS bits that were being run on them. They were Rockefeller tools. Of course nothing was really gonna touch them, whatever it was and however it was pursued.

And Hell No, the coverage of all that was never over the top. Nothing like the Trumpbuster spectacle.
 
No, no, no, my dear fellow. That's not a personal attack at all. I simply think you have issues, and I am doing you a disservice with long replies to your inscrutable screeds. The good news is I intend to leave you alone. I need to show more compassion toward you, not pick on you all the time. I wish you continued improvement. I bid you anon, my dear fellow.

I can't believe I'm still up at this late hour.

Well, you still can call 3 AM local time a "late hour". You didn't read what I said, obviously, because I did say I thought you were no enemy, just someone so sold on your own views you could not bear to consider other ideas. Of course, it's a cheap dishonest way out of a conversation to feign pity and allude to self-justifying views.

I don't doubt your take on my "inscrutable screeds". It takes some serious attention to get it. We often call the Chinese "inscrutable" for our unwillingness to actually address the thinking they are doing. One Chinese associate many years ago explained it this way. "We know you. You do not know us."
 
Well, you still can call 3 AM local time a "late hour". You didn't read what I said, obviously, because I did say I thought you were no enemy, just someone so sold on your own views you could not bear to consider other ideas. Of course, it's a cheap dishonest way out of a conversation to feign pity and allude to self-justifying views.

I don't doubt your take on my "inscrutable screeds". It takes some serious attention to get it. We often call the Chinese "inscrutable" for our unwillingness to actually address the thinking they are doing. One Chinese associate many years ago explained it this way. "We know you. You do not know us."

Lol, you're right, I did not read your previous comment, but I see you wrote "I am one who questions, one who analyzes what is happening, and who works on understanding why and how it is happening". Well, me too, and I just don't believe what results is "swill", as you described it. And it doesn't take serious attention to get it, either.

That is indeed often the case with your offerings, because you jump all over the place before, at times, returning to your point. It reminds me of a lectures I heard by Timothy Leary, back in the day. He had a remarkable ability to venture a long distance from his central point, and yet find his way back eventually. One did have to focus and not be distracted for even a second. He demanded a lot of his listeners, and you too demand a lot of your readers, but I did notice the conspiratorial components of your world view long since, and it's that component of irrationality that I resist, and will never embrace. I simply can't do it. I find it irrational, and that's not intended to be an insult, I think we are living in an age where irrationality is in the ascendant, as has happened in the past in Western history, and I simply think it clouds your vision, but of course you may see it as the opposite, as a form of enlightenment that all might profit by, if only they made the effort to understand.

Listen, many folks here were describing their political background, and how they arrived at where they are today. Over in the Kennedy is retiring thread, which became a discussion of Kavanaugh. I joined in, in comment #1416. Pretty much describes the journey that resulted in where I am today. And it really doesn't resemble how you describe me in your comments on this page. If you really want to know me at all, that comment will help, but of course you can just pigeon hole me as you have here if you want. And I admit there's also nothing to be gained in my doing the very same thing toward you. I don't know you, and "paranoid delusions" is bound to get under your skin, I can do better then that, and not be so dismissive. We just got off on the wrong foot a long time ago, now, and it's silly for either one of us to continue in this fashion. I understand where you are coming from to a degree sufficient to know I cannot agree with most of your thought. But I will cease with things that can be construed to be insulting where your thoughts are concerned.
 
It never touched the Clintons. The "impeachment" failed, and essentially put a stamp of official societal approval on politicians with inadequate sexual inhibitions. Sure, Hillary threw some folks under her bus to make issues go away, but no way was it ever really gonna touch the Clintons.

Six years of dedicated, smart, resourceful people with a huge amoujnt of access were trying to dig up dirt on the Clintons, and they result was perjury about an act of consensual sex. Maybe there just wan't anything else to find.

And Hell No, the coverage of all that was never over the top. Nothing like the Trumpbuster spectacle.

Nothing has ever been like the Trumpbuster spectacle. Maybe that has to do with Trump?
 
This essay by Christopher Browning, an historian and the leading scholar on the Holocaust and Germany in the interwar period of the 20th century, in which he compares the rise of an illiberalism at that time to the rise of illiberal democracy in the United States today, provided a clarity to my understanding of the current era in the United States that I really needed. It will serve as the filter through which I can best interpret what is going on in the Trump era, and the role of the Republican Party in the suffication of democracy in America.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/

Trump's role in this process includes not only the demonization of a free press, encapsulated in "the press is the enemy of the people", a familar refrain of Trump by now, along with the claim that any press unfavorable to himself is "fake news", but, if Browning's analysis is correct, we must expect the demonization of the Democratic Party by Trump as well. And, indeed, in his rallies just prior to the Senate confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, that is exactly what we see, as he referred to Democrats as "evil people" for simply speaking out against the confirmation of Kavanaugh.

Leading up to the November midterm elections, Trump will continue to paint the Democrats as 'evil people". He will do this to energize his base to vote and counteract any blue wave. But, in so doing, he will continue his effort to marginalize anybody who opposes him as the enemy of America. The danger of such a stance should be obvious to any thinking American, but as Adam Serwer of The Atlantic points out, for the people who attend Trump rallies, the core of his base, a core that amounts to a cult, the cruelty expressed by Trump is the whole point:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

We can expect Trump to pound home the meme of Democrats being the enemy of the people in order to convince his base they must come out to defend his agenda by protecting the Republican Party. Hence he will essentially enlist this base in the continued suffication of democracy in America so well described by Browning's essay.

Browning's description of how well Mitch McConnell and the Republicans have worked to ensure a dictatorship of the minority in American politics, illustrates just how difficult the days, the decades, ahead will be. I know for myself this forces me into the position of seeing the Republican Party as the enemy of our democratic institutions and our democracy as we have known it in the pre Mitch McConnell led era. From Browning's essay:

"If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could. As with parliamentary gridlock in Weimar, congressional gridlock in the US has diminished respect for democratic norms, allowing McConnell to trample them even more. Nowhere is this vicious circle clearer than in the obliteration of traditional precedents concerning judicial appointments. Systematic obstruction of nominations in Obama’s first term provoked Democrats to scrap the filibuster for all but Supreme Court nominations. Then McConnell’s unprecedented blocking of the Merrick Garland nomination required him in turn to scrap the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations in order to complete the “steal” of Antonin Scalia’s seat and confirm Neil Gorsuch. The extreme politicization of the judicial nomination process is once again on display in the current Kavanaugh hearings."

So long as Trump continues to paint Democrats as "the enemy" in his pre midterm rallies, and so long as the Republican leadership embraces his effort to demonize the minority party, defenders of democracy in America must point out the insidious suffication of our democracy that such an effort by Trump, and such complicity by the Republicans, represents. For me, personally, Browning's essay has provided the clarity I needed to see what is happening in these early decades of 21st century America. The stakes could not be higher, and the fewer are the citizens of our republic that sleepwalk through our times, the better our chances to resist this rise of authoritarianism and the tyranny of the minority in America.

But, at this moment in our history, what Browning outlines is happening in the Trump/Republican response to the Mueller probe is what we should likely expect will be their illiberal response:

"Faced with the Mueller investigation into Russian meddling in the US election and collusion with members of his campaign, Trump and his supporters’ first line of defense has been twofold—there was “no collusion” and the claim of Russian meddling is a “hoax.” The second line of defense is again twofold: “collusion is not a crime” and the now-proven Russian meddling had no effect. I suspect that if the Mueller report finds that the Trump campaign’s “collusion” with Russians does indeed meet the legal definition of “criminal conspiracy” and that the enormous extent of Russian meddling makes the claim that it had no effect totally implausible, many Republicans will retreat, either implicitly or explicitly, to the third line of defense: “Better Putin than Hillary.” There seems to be nothing for which the demonization of Hillary Clinton does not serve as sufficient justification, and the notion that a Trump presidency indebted to Putin is far preferable to the nightmare of a Clinton victory will signal the final Republican reorientation to illiberalism at home and subservience to an authoritarian abroad."
 
This essay by Christopher Browning, an historian and the leading scholar on the Holocaust and Germany in the interwar period of the 20th century, in which he compares the rise of an illiberalism at that time to the rise of illiberal democracy in the United States today, provided a clarity to my understanding of the current era in the United States that I really needed. It will serve as the filter through which I can best interpret what is going on in the Trump era, and the role of the Republican Party in the suffication of democracy in America.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/

Trump's role in this process includes not only the demonization of a free press, encapsulated in "the press is the enemy of the people", a familar refrain of Trump by now, along with the claim that any press unfavorable to himself is "fake news", but, if Browning's analysis is correct, we must expect the demonization of the Democratic Party by Trump as well. And, indeed, in his rallies just prior to the Senate confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, that is exactly what we see, as he referred to Democrats as "evil people" for simply speaking out against the confirmation of Kavanaugh.

Leading up to the November midterm elections, Trump will continue to paint the Democrats as 'evil people". He will do this to energize his base to vote and counteract any blue wave. But, in so doing, he will continue his effort to marginalize anybody who opposes him as the enemy of America. The danger of such a stance should be obvious to any thinking American, but as Adam Serwer of The Atlantic points out, for the people who attend Trump rallies, the core of his base, a core that amounts to a cult, the cruelty expressed by Trump is the whole point:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

We can expect Trump to pound home the meme of Democrats being the enemy of the people in order to convince his base they must come out to defend his agenda by protecting the Republican Party. Hence he will essentially enlist this base in the continued suffication of democracy in America so well described by Browning's essay.

Browning's description of how well Mitch McConnell and the Republicans have worked to ensure a dictatorship of the minority in American politics, illustrates just how difficult the days, the decades, ahead will be. I know for myself this forces me into the position of seeing the Republican Party as the enemy of our democratic institutions and our democracy as we have known it in the pre Mitch McConnell led era. From Browning's essay:

"If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could. As with parliamentary gridlock in Weimar, congressional gridlock in the US has diminished respect for democratic norms, allowing McConnell to trample them even more. Nowhere is this vicious circle clearer than in the obliteration of traditional precedents concerning judicial appointments. Systematic obstruction of nominations in Obama’s first term provoked Democrats to scrap the filibuster for all but Supreme Court nominations. Then McConnell’s unprecedented blocking of the Merrick Garland nomination required him in turn to scrap the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations in order to complete the “steal” of Antonin Scalia’s seat and confirm Neil Gorsuch. The extreme politicization of the judicial nomination process is once again on display in the current Kavanaugh hearings."

So long as Trump continues to paint Democrats as "the enemy" in his pre midterm rallies, and so long as the Republican leadership embraces his effort to demonize the minority party, defenders of democracy in America must point out the insidious suffication of our democracy that such an effort by Trump, and such complicity by the Republicans, represents. For me, personally, Browning's essay has provided the clarity I needed to see what is happening in these early decades of 21st century America. The stakes could not be higher, and the fewer are the citizens of our republic that sleepwalk through our times, the better our chances to resist this rise of authoritarianism and the tyranny of the minority in America.

But, at this moment in our history, what Browning outlines is happening in the Trump/Republican response to the Mueller probe is what we should likely expect will be their illiberal response:

"Faced with the Mueller investigation into Russian meddling in the US election and collusion with members of his campaign, Trump and his supporters’ first line of defense has been twofold—there was “no collusion” and the claim of Russian meddling is a “hoax.” The second line of defense is again twofold: “collusion is not a crime” and the now-proven Russian meddling had no effect. I suspect that if the Mueller report finds that the Trump campaign’s “collusion” with Russians does indeed meet the legal definition of “criminal conspiracy” and that the enormous extent of Russian meddling makes the claim that it had no effect totally implausible, many Republicans will retreat, either implicitly or explicitly, to the third line of defense: “Better Putin than Hillary.” There seems to be nothing for which the demonization of Hillary Clinton does not serve as sufficient justification, and the notion that a Trump presidency indebted to Putin is far preferable to the nightmare of a Clinton victory will signal the final Republican reorientation to illiberalism at home and subservience to an authoritarian abroad."
I might catch some **** for this, but I can not wait until Mitch McConnell is in the ground. He has done more damage to our democracy than any other single person.
 
I might catch some **** for this, but I can not wait until Mitch McConnell is in the ground. He has done more damage to our democracy than any other single person.

I don’t wish death on anyone.

His pride over the Obama S.C. pick is pathetic. U.S. would be far better with him out of office.
 
I don’t wish death on anyone.

His pride over the Obama S.C. pick is pathetic. U.S. would be far better with him out of office.

That’s fair. To be clear, I don’t condone violence against them, but I will absolutely throw a party when McConnell goes. Cheney too.
 
I don’t wish death on anyone.

His pride over the Obama S.C. pick is pathetic. U.S. would be far better with him out of office.

Right on.

You reading about all the death threats people are reviving over this Kavanaugh thing?

Some sicko sent a video of a decapitation to the wife of a house member from CO. His families addresses have been made public.

**** like that.
 
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