I agree that we need to keep Exum.
Our current wings are Burks, Ingles, Crowder and O'Neale. If we can add Exum and draft another wing, then we can start to play like the Rockets or Boston on defense.
Following Potential 2018 Draftees
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
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I agree that we need to keep Exum.
Our current wings are Burks, Ingles, Crowder and O'Neale. If we can add Exum and draft another wing, then we can start to play like the Rockets or Boston on defense.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Okobo looks good. But I’m still kinda set on a big wing who can switch on D.
He’d still make my list of ‘dudes i’d be happy with at 21’ though. I think that list is about 20 deep at this point.
He’d still make my list of ‘dudes i’d be happy with at 21’ though. I think that list is about 20 deep at this point.
I think in this draft it's pretty fluid 15-35, so I have no idea.
Brown is a way more questionable athlete in the NBA than Okobo. His length isnt even as positional strong as Okobo's . Hasnt shown he is can be an effective shooter.
Frazier is going to be 22 by the time the season starts and is 200 lbs. He might not be strong enough to an effective NBA defender. His jumper is ugly as well.
I think those two have a lot more questions than Okobo on how they will translate to the NBA game.
If you like what you've seen of his highlights, you wont dislike him when you watch full games. I've seen five. The only real negative on him is that he can be casual on defense.
Here are my notes from the first game I saw(go to the summary if you don't care about the particulars of the game itself):
Elie Okobo vs vs Elan Chalon
Q1:
-first possession - rejects a screen on the left wing with a crossover and attacks the rim - great finish over the help defender. Great quickness!
-his handle looks tight. Clear PG handle.
-great read out of the PnR - passes to the spot up shooter in the close corner for an open 3.
- after a good chase around a screen of his man, his secondary effort seems a bit lackluster, overall doesn't look overly engaged on D, a bit upright, not in a stance.
- doesn't move much when he gives up the ball.
- doesn't look physical on D, allows his man to run around a screen and go to the rim uninterrupted.
- gets trapped on the sideline but manages to pass out of it
- unselfish in transition - makes the right pass to the open shooter on the wing
- he seems to do the bare minimum on defense. Example - he would make the rotation, but then would give no resistance or contest on the shot.
- I love his dribble. It's really tight and seamless. Crossover into spin move hesi jimbo, drains it from the FT line. This is advanced stuff and more than anything - it looks natural, it looks easy.
- this was better on D - decided to be pesky and interrupted his man and deflected the ball. So he CAN do it. After the inbound - chases his man around screens with good effort. I wonder if his coach told him something... he seems able defensively when he tries.
- weird TO on an easy pass... I don't know if it was his or the big's fault.
- picks his guy at halfcourt 2 possessions in a row.
- oh wow! great touch on a lob pass to his big after defender hedged hard on the PnR. Beautiful! There was a shorter defender right there. He put the ball where only his teammate can get it.
- not great technique in fighting through screens on D.
-great speed in semi transition after a basket, pushes the ball down the court, decided to take advantage of the opponent not being set, went to the basket, but his shot was a bit wild and missed.
Q2:
- gets in with 6 minutes to go. Good patience off the PnR, pulls up and drains it. He's got quick release. Oh BTW, he's a lefty... which would explain the wild shot with the right hand above ^
- good effort on D, chases his guy off screens, doesn't let him get open.
- good efford on D again ^.
- PnR, a big gets switched on him. ISO pull up from 3 after threatening to drive with his dribble - scores it. His shot off the bounce looks real nice.
- he does this Dion Waiters thing where he waves his hands when he thinks he's open on the wing and wants the ball, lol...
- fights through screen but gets lazy and tries that poke from the back after he gets beat off the dribble(Harden does that a lot when he gets beat too)
- Good pocket pass off the PnR, his big misses the shot. He seems to be making the right reads overall on offense.
- Attacks the paint after a high PnR, sees the open shooter on the opposite corner and finds him with a bounce pass
- great rotation under his own basket, blocks the shot from a cutting opponent.
- runs in transition, gets the ball on the move in the paint and finishes through contact at the rim - good body control, and strength to finish it.
- I like how he attacks the paint and makes decisions. He threw a pass to a teammate who didn't expect it, so it counts as a TO for him, but... I love that he keeps all options open - he doesn't attack the rim predetermined what he will do. Reads and reacts.
Q3:
-weaves around the perimeter - has the quickness to turn the corner and break the paint... creates advantage that ends up with a layup for a teammate
- pulls up from 3 in transition - misses... but they get the rebound, the defense loses him and he launches another 3. He's not shy about shooting, but this is a good shot with nobody around him - scores.
- ball watches a lot and doesn't move much on rebounding opportunities.
- spot up 3 from the corner - misses
- gambles for a steal in transition defense, doesn't chase - opponent ends up with FTs.
- good pass to his rolling big in the PnR, he misses.
- good effort on the offensive glass, but this is followed again by a lazy D - trying to poke the ball from behind.
- OK, here we go - one of the few one on one defensive possessions - tries to slide his feet sideways, too slow, gets beat and takes himself out of the play. Urgh!
- pushes in transition, breaks the paint, gets caight mid-air - lucky to find a teammate with his pass
-makes the good pass to an open man - the defense is not great in this game on both sides - way too many breakdowns, way too many forgotten shooters.
- his man attacks him on the closeout and Okobo gives up penetration to the middle and a basket
- Sideline out of bounds play - great bounce pass to a cutting teammate right under the basket. Nice.
- Another great pass from the wing to a cutting big inside the paint, again puts it where he can get it, he gets fouled.
- Oh come on, man! COME ON! I really want to like you. You cannot do this - HORRIBLE effort in transition D. Was one the two men closest to halfcourt when the opponent got the ball - got outrun by 2 opponents down the court! This is just HORRIBLE.
-And of course the next possession he does something awesome again - great entry pass from 30 feet to a big inside the paint who had his defender sealed. Pin point accuracy of the pass and an easy bucket.
-bad closeout after he left his man unattended - gives up a 3.
- he has really good feel for the pass. Distributes the ball to a teammate running off a screen. Straight into his shooting pocket - scores.
- gets beat off the dribble again. deflects the ball out of bounds in the next sequence, I wonder what his length is? Anybody know? Might have good length, it shows in some areas defensively.
- good attack of a closeout, beats his man and draws to defenders - passes out to a teammate who scores.
- good effort to chase his man off a screen
-crosses his defender over, breaks the paint again, great read and pass to the open shooter in the corner. This is seamless. I just love his offensive game. There is very little he does wrong on offense.
-another deflection off ball on defense - he seems to have good length. Wish he had better fundamentals and effort.
-gets subbed out at the end of the Q
Q4:
-gets subbed in with 5 minutes to go in the game. OMG! What a pass. Whips it around defender and passes his teammate open under the basket.
-gets beat in semi-transition on D and gives up a layup after he got interrupted by a screen
- good patience going left in the PnR, waits for the hedge man to retreat, the primary defender runs past him, pulls the ball back and pulls up off the dribble. Beautiful! He just looks polished. Oh, BTW the 3 goes in.
- 4 minutes to go, he seems to be giving more effort on D again - picks up the ballhandler halfcourt, chases him around screens and tries to deny the ball(doesn't succeed but still good effort - opponent wasted almost all the clock).
-attacks left off the PnR, breaks the paint again - they just cannot stop him going anywhere he wants with the ball... nifty lefty layup + and-1. scores the FT.
-seems more focused on D again (I am not sure what the score is, they don't show it, but he seems to give more effort now). It's not anything amazing, but ieast he's in a stance and is defending more than 1 action.
- gets fouled in transition. Scores both FTs
- another transition opportunity - pulls up from 3 after both defenders who got back cloged the paint. Good read of the situation and scores again! Wish I knew what the score is - if it was close, he's winning the game for his team.
- sliding his feet well on D this time, but fouls the opponent on the shot in the paint.
- This time they trap him off the PnR, EASY and IMMEDIATE read and reaction - passes it right away. I love his decisionmaking on offense.
- again less than stellar transition D.
- fouled on offense - scores 1 of 2 FTs.
- another reach foul vs Okobo (game seems over(I think they are winning)) - scores 1 of 2 FTs. Gets annimated and pissed off for the miss...
- another set of FTs - makes 1 of 2.
Summary:
Offense - I'm in love with his offensive game. He's got it all. I'm not sure he's explosive athlete, but he has great handle, good pace to his game. Doesn't get sped up, doesn't get slowed down. He's in full control when the ball is in his hands. Makes the right reads off the PnR - be it to pass to either corner, or dump off to a big in the paint... or to pull up. He's got it all and he executes the offense very well. I don't think I saw anything I disliked really. His handle is tight and in some instances advanced, he has hesitations and hang dribbles, crossovers, step backs between the legs... he breaks the paint at will. His shot is quick and seamless and his %s suggest he will be a very good shooter both on the catch and on pull ups. He's got enough speed and enough wiggle for me to think he is a starting PG material in the NBA. His passing is great - he passes with both touch and pace, he does bounce passes and lob passes and all of them seem to end up exactly where he intends them to go. I love his game so much. WOW! I didn't expect this when I first heard his name and saw people talking about him. This is something else. IMO he might be the best PG in this draft. I'm really having hard time finding something to knock him for offensively. I don't think there is anything... maybe he's not the most explosive athlete... maybe he's not the fastest athlete... but it's not like he's slow or can't jump. I guess if I HAD to say something negative it's that sometimes(more than I would like) he doesn't keep busy when he's off ball - he just stays out on the perimeter and waits for the ball to come back to him.
Defense: Oh boy! This one is an adventure... You can see my frustration in my notes above I bet. The positives - he seems to have good length and he gets some deflections with it. But overall I was not impressed - he looked like he couldn't be bothered... he would give effort on the first action and if he doesn't get a stop, he would just kinda... give up and lazy it out for the rest of the possession. The prime example is what the laziest of the lazy defenders do even in the NBA - the poke from behind - this tells me "I cannot be bothered to stay in front of my guy, but hey... i will at least simulate interest by trying to poke the ball from behind once he's past me". I hated his effort in transition D on severla occassions. This will not fly with Quin if we draft him. So yeah... most of the time he looked very lackadaisical on D. In the end of both 2nd and 4th quarters though he seemed to lock in a bit more and he looked passable. I wouldn't say amazing or anything of that sort, but he looked like he was at least trying. There were several instances where he was sliding his feet well with the ballhandler, he also had some nice possessions chasing around screens. This shows that if not good he can be at least passable IMO, but he will need a more demanding coach that won't let him just coast on D.
mellow
Well-Known Member
I think that was the plan last season up until Exum crashed his shoulder, Rodney blew out his boxers then Thabo blew out his knee.
Now bring back Thabo and get one more wing or playmaking big in the draft.
I think KBD could be special with the Jazz, like our version of Luol Deng playing between Derrick Rose and Joaquim Noah. It's just a good fit. (He just needs to pass more.)
Okobo jumps off the page though. He could be PGOTF while Exum can move to the wing and handle in certain sets. As always, I just wish he were an inch or two bigger.
Okobo jumps off the page though. He could be PGOTF while Exum can move to the wing and handle in certain sets. As always, I just wish he were an inch or two bigger.
I think casual on defense is a very very polite way to put it. I thought it was frustrating as hell. The thing is... I don't think he cannot do it. Several times when he showed good effort he had good defensive possessions, but those were few and far between. If we draft him Quin will not stand for this BS. If he doesn't fix his effort he will ride the pine.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Shooters kinda important too.
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
I think you let sefolosha and jerebko walk and you sign Joe Harris and hezonja to fill their spots.
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He plays enough good defense that it doesnt really bother me or change my perception of him.
Shooters who can also drive and create. That's where the Warriors are struggling. There's a reason the Ws tried to give Draymond the ball with 10 seconds left last night.
And they have to be able to defend well enough to hold up. It is a tall order for a draft pick in the 20's.
I just watched several videos for Chandler Hutchison and Heurter. They both have a chance to be pretty good players. I guess it is all going to come down to what the Jazz Front Office thinks about their characters and who is most likely to make the necessary improvements.
I am in favor of taking a chance on a wing or a big wing like Bates-Diop instead of taking a chance on a PG or a center.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Guys like Ariza, Mbah a Moute, Tucker, Livingston, Iguodala, Bell, Draymond and others are there for defense first. They hope to provide occasional 3's, but its defense first. Exum, O'Neale and Crowder are that for us.
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mellow
Well-Known Member
Because this KBD came in to work out for the Jazz I went and watched two highlight youtubes, so I am pretty much an expert now.
I did watch a couple videos but I know nothing about the kid. I didn't know he was a senior (22-years old) the Jazz used to care about that, (or maybe it was just Locke who cared about that) does it matter?
For fun I searched for a talking head scouting report from another fan base and found this from Milwaukee who drafts #17: https://dairylandexpress.com/2018/0...-nba-draft-scouting-profile-keita-bates-diop/
"Bates-Diop took a huge leap during his senior year, posting some very nice numbers. Thanks to that performance, he certainly improved his draft stock by a large margin.
In a league where teams are always looking for glue guys, he could be that man. He already brings a lot of experience to the table and knows how to do the little things to win games. Let’s take a look at what Bates-Diop brings to the table leading up the 2018 NBA Draft:
Pros
Pros
- Has a very nice outside jump shot.
- Can score around the rim, including on post-ups.
- Good rebounder.
- Can defend wings and big men effectively.
- There are questions about what his best position will be.
- Can’t create his own shot.
- Doesn’t always play hard"
Guys who are 6'8" - 6'10" and who are multi-dimensional players have the potential to dominate. Guys who are smaller can ultimately get slowed down or shut down. (I remember during Derrick Rose's MVP season Lebron and Wade shut him down in the playoffs.) But a guy with size who can shoot, drive, create with the ball, rebound and go, etc. are almost impossible to stop, especially on a spaced floor.
That's why a prospect like Isaac Bonga remains intriguing, even though he isn't shooting well yet. He gets by guys with his long strides, gets to the rim, and makes plays over the top of the defense. He's a bit like a young (skinny) Boris Diaw.
I also see some potential in Troy Brown, though I'm hoping he'll keep growing and develop his shooting. That's why I think he'll go top 20 in the draft.
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Because this KBD came in to work out for the Jazz I went and watched two highlight youtubes, so I am pretty much an expert now.
I did watch a couple videos but I know nothing about the kid. I didn't know he was a senior (22-years old) the Jazz used to care about that, (or maybe it was just Locke who cared about that) does it matter?
For fun I searched for a talking head scouting report from another fan base and found this from Milwaukee who drafts #17: https://dairylandexpress.com/2018/0...-nba-draft-scouting-profile-keita-bates-diop/
"Bates-Diop took a huge leap during his senior year, posting some very nice numbers. Thanks to that performance, he certainly improved his draft stock by a large margin.
Bucks see him as a 4/5 and compare him to Bobby Simmons, Brian Scalabrine and ....Jonas Jerebko.In a league where teams are always looking for glue guys, he could be that man. He already brings a lot of experience to the table and knows how to do the little things to win games. Let’s take a look at what Bates-Diop brings to the table leading up the 2018 NBA Draft:
Pros
Cons
- Has a very nice outside jump shot.
- Can score around the rim, including on post-ups.
- Good rebounder.
- Can defend wings and big men effectively.
- There are questions about what his best position will be.
- Can’t create his own shot.
- Doesn’t always play hard"
He does need to play harder and put more energy in on defense rather than just 'hold his ground.'
I hadn't even heard of Bonga. But he is the kind of prospect I hope we are going after.