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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

Handlogten's Heros said:
No... I didn't take it that way at all. I think I watched maybe 5 ish full games. I like doing the full game highlights on Cashiggy. I'm a casual. I really wish Ace and Dylan went to a real situation instead of that **** show. Makes it so much harder to feel concrete about their production.

Also heard J Kyle Mann on the Zach Lowe show... said that Ace was measured before and came in at 6-8.25 and 6-11.5 wingspan. I guess with Ace my feeling is everything about him that makes people salivate is a little overrated imo. Like 6-10 shooter... its more like 6-9 shooter? Tre does the tough shot making thing better... I know he's smaller but shrug.

For me 3-6 is basically fully interchangeable. I know GMs don't think that way but right now I am fully Kon Pilled and it seems to only be getting stronger. For me I guess I think Kon has like a really good chance to be some version of Bane. Lets say its 50%. I think Tre might have like a 10% chance at being Booker but a more likely scenario is like Beasley+. VJ I think the measurements may end up hurting him quite a bit. Ace you could tell me he is like GG Jackson, Cam Reddish, Jabari Smith Jr. plus... the high end outcome... Like maybe Ingram on caffeine? I just think its a really wide range of outcomes.
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not sure if you saw my earlier post where i predicted Ace's height - that's pretty much what i thought it would be. i never thought he was 6'10".
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Also gave the Ace measurements. They identified the Jazz as the team that most needs to win the lotto. Threw out that some of the Kon stuff in the midrange looks like Devin Booker. Mann was kind of weird when talking about Harper to Utah though. Was like "Harper doesn't fit with Sexton and Key". Homie... that ain't any kind of factor. Those guys may not be on the team in a year or two.
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lol. that's crazy talk. Harper is the exact type of guard that fits with Key - assuming Key were part of a starting back court of the future.
 
HermanG said:
I just see the ball getting high and loose too often... hence the concern. Its not about beating the defender, its about having small moments when I feel like the dribble doesnt stay compact and he either bounces it too high or it gets too far from his body. I think seeing Amen Thompson slide into off ball player has made me very questionnable about guys who can handle it well enough in the NBA. If you are 6'4 or shorter I'm not that concerned... since the dribble will be lower by default.

The first step thing I'm not sure about. Its hard for me to analyze with limited tape since eyes can deceive you there. He is very athletic and has long strides, so I would imagine that he can move well enough to beat defenders when they are off balance or have their feet/hips poorly positioned.... But if your handles arent great then you cannot get the full benefit from your athleticism either.

But it doesnt matter which one is the issue. If he cannot consistently create advantages off the dribble against well positioned defenders and/or get to the rim off the dribble then the high end comp isnt anywhere near KD... its somewhere closer to the neighborhood of Ingram (with worse passing and better defense).
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We’re accustomed to think that more height = better….which is true for the part. But I had some similar thoughts to you about his handle and build. Being taller is better, but being taller also means your handle needs to be better if you want to be a perimeter player. I don’t think Ace’s handles are that bad relative to guys his size….but relative to guys who actually play with the ball in his hands is very suspect.

He’s all not very physical on offense. Guys like Paolo, Franz, Siakam etc all have a much more developed handle….but they also use their size to attack the basket. Ace uses his size to chuck up more mid range shots.
 
Paul George at the 2010 Combine: 6'7.75" w/o shoes, 6'11.5" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach.

Ace may come in slightly taller than PG, which would likely put him over 6'9" w/ shoes. He's also still 18 y.o., so there's potential to grow a bit.
 
KqWIN said:
We’re accustomed to think that more height = better….which is true for the part. But I had some similar thoughts to you about his handle and build. Being taller is better, but being taller also means your handle needs to be better if you want to be a perimeter player. I don’t think Ace’s handles are that bad relative to guys his size….but relative to guys who actually play with the ball in his hands is very suspect.

He’s all not very physical on offense. Guys like Paolo, Franz, Siakam etc all have a much more developed handle….but they also use their size to attack the basket. Ace uses his size to chuck up more mid range shots.
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Yeah thats also why the same issue doesnt concern me as much with Flagg. He can play bully ball with power with his back to basket much like those guys do when they face ball pressure. That also discourages smaller guys getting to his skin, since they'd rather have him shoot than create contact and back them to the paint.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Paul George at the 2010 Combine: 6'7.75" w/o shoes, 6'11.5" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach.

Ace may come in slightly taller than PG, which would likely put him over 6'9" w/ shoes. He's also still 18 y.o., so there's potential to grow a bit.
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yeah, i don't think it matters much that he isn't 6'10" - i think more than anything it has been an annoyance that he was listed somewhere at 6'10" and from there everybody took it as fact. doesn't matter because even at 6'9" (6'8" or near that without shoes) he has elite size for his position.
 
I have a hard time picking between VJ and Tre. Being a bit dramatic you could say:
  • First does the little things well but lacks finesse in his skillset... latter has all the finess but none of the little things.
  • VJ strengths will likely translate, but if nothing else develops to NBA level he is an undersized role player for the roles where you need defense/hustle guys. He may just lose all his value if he gets extended minutes during his rookie deal and doesnt show enough (bust potential).
  • Tre strengths may or may not translate, but at least if the other skills wont develop he may still become a fine 6th man type of player and could impress enough on his rookie deal to preserve some value of the pick we invest in him.
I really hope we pick early enough so we dont have to make this choice. I wouldnt feel sure about either option, and would be damn nervous watching the other guy start his career elsewhere.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Paul George at the 2010 Combine: 6'7.75" w/o shoes, 6'11.5" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach.

Ace may come in slightly taller than PG, which would likely put him over 6'9" w/ shoes. He's also still 18 y.o., so there's potential to grow a bit.
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I think we would be hoping he'd be PG but PG really got cut his teeth being an all-nba defensive guy first. This is why Ace's mindset and work ethic I think really need to check out. He needs to think he is somewhere in the McDaniels/PG continuum and I would worry he thinks he's more KD bucket getter type.
 
HermanG said:
I have a hard time picking between VJ and Tre. Being a bit dramatic you could say:
  • First does the little things well but lacks finesse in his skillset... latter has all the finess but none of the little things.
  • VJ strengths will likely translate, but if nothing else develops to NBA level he is an undersized role player for the roles where you need defense/hustle guys. He may just lose all his value if he gets extended minutes during his rookie deal and doesnt show enough (bust potential).
  • Tre strengths may or may not translate, but at least if the other skills wont develop he may still become a fine 6th man type of player and could impress enough on his rookie deal to preserve some value of the pick we invest in him.
I really hope we pick early enough so we dont have to make this choice. I wouldnt feel sure about either option, and would be damn nervous watching the other guy start his career elsewhere.
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For me, it is easily VJ. His all-around play is what I personally like in players. He looks like he has the determination to work hard at getting better and diversify even more so. Based on his shot mechanics, I think it will get better and better. My similar dilemma is between VJ and Ace. Ace has a ceiling that is high, but I am scared of him. I will ultimately be happy with either, but think deep down prefer VJ
 
VJ comp that kinda struck me... What if he is Donte Divincenzo but with a touch more athletic pop.
 
Tre vs Kon is another debate imo. Like if you draft Tre aren't you hoping he plays a little more like Kon did last year? Like aren't you hoping he's less thirsty and doing more?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think we would be hoping he'd be PG but PG really got cut his teeth being an all-nba defensive guy first. This is why Ace's mindset and work ethic I think really need to check out. He needs to think he is somewhere in the McDaniels/PG continuum and I would worry he thinks he's more KD bucket getter type.
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This is what I worry about. He will think he is KD, but really he becomes Keyonte. Bad shots, ball stopper, and hero chucking.
 
Did Kon have any dunks this season?

Only highlight of a dunk I could find was in an exhibition game on a D3 school.

Trying to think of how many good 6'6 or taller guys in the NBA that never dunk.
 
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This may seem a bit simplistic, but I think Flagg is your franchise guy. Harper is your Cade Cunningham lead initiator. Ace and Tre are your Option 1B off-ball, secondary scorers and shotmakers. (Note: Even KD needed to play off a strong lead guard). And VJ is your 3rd guy (e.g., Oladipo, JR Smith, Larry Hughes, etc.).

Maybe VJ can play a role functionally similar to Jaylen Brown, despite being smaller. If you liked Stephon Castle last year, you’ll really like VJ, although I think VJ is also smaller than Castle.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
Tre vs Kon is another debate imo. Like if you draft Tre aren't you hoping he plays a little more like Kon did last year? Like aren't you hoping he's less thirsty and doing more?
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YEah it's not a debate for me at all. Pretty big gap there imo.

Obviously Flagg is in his own tier, then I would say Harper is barely in his own tier with Ace/Tre having potential to be better (who are both basically tied in my mind) then for 5th it's between VJ and Fears for 5/6 with a massive fall off at 7, which is where I would start thinking about Kon over other players.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think we would be hoping he'd be PG but PG really got cut his teeth being an all-nba defensive guy first. This is why Ace's mindset and work ethic I think really need to check out. He needs to think he is somewhere in the McDaniels/PG continuum and I would worry he thinks he's more KD bucket getter type.
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PG was also a 20 yo soph entering the draft. With someone who is still 18, you’re looking for a guy you can mold. Almost no 18-yo dude is playing NBA-level defense.
 
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