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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

Saint Cy of JFC said:
You're just overthinking what the max vert test says.

VJ isnt an incredible athlete because he jumps really high. He's an incredible athlete becuase he jumps very high very quickly, which is something the combine doesnt test.
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This is probably more important than max vert or the other max athletic measurements. Functional athleticism is about how quickly a person can execute movement (either as initiator or in reaction) 95% of the time.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I would guess that if the Jazz stay at 5 the odds of who they draft would look like this:
— Tre (40%)
— Ace (30%)
— Fears (20%)
— VJ (10%)

But I’m assuming the Jazz don’t have an issue with Ace. Almost no one thinks VJ is getting to 5, so that’s why his odds would be low. It’s very likely that one of Tre/Ace WILL get to 5. The question is whether Ace v. Fears is a real discussion, or just a smokescreen.

If the Jazz want Kon, I think they’d trade back a couple spots.
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Based on Danny's draft history I think Ace is the pick if he is somehow on the board
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its kind of funny that Tre and Kon are pitted against each other. Some assume all of Tre's faults are his teammates/situation and then ascribe Kon's production to great teammates and great situation. Like Leif talked about how Tre struggles to get to the rim but its not because he doesn't beat his guy and declared him a three level scorer... then throws out that NBA spacing will open things up for him. He'd have thousands more assists if his teammates weren't trash.

Tre likely improves and figures some things out for sure but its funny how optimistic folks can be and the narratives they can stretch to fit the case... and then quickly dismiss another guy that has success at something because "it won't work at the next level". Its just kinda funny.

Still good with either guy.
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I feel you. Look, Kon clearly put up better stats.

However, the argument for Kon relies on efficiency and a 2 way player extending to the worlds best league with the top athletes. Being efficient and a 2 way player against the top athletes in the world is far from a guarantee.

For that reason, 5 seems like a stretch.

Tre's skill set is as a top scorer. We need a go to guy next to Maarkenan or in lieu of Lauri. Where are we going to get that type of player other than through the draft. For that reason, it is easier to root for a proven scorer.

I will be happy with a number of guys but we need all star potential and Kon has a harder road to get there than Tre.
 
KqWIN said:
I think the concerns with Tre are real, but his shot making is a cut above most prospects. Needs to shoot a lot more 3's though.
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I have zero worries about a coaching staff's ability to convert a lot of his mid-range pull ups into 3s. This is one of the easiest things teams do nowadays. minimize the midrange... To be honest, teams still need a player or two who can reliably pull up from 2 so I don't even think his pull up 2s are a big problem. I think minimal adjustments in his shot diet would do wonders about his efficiency.
 
I'm ready with the top of my board....
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1. Flagg
------
2. Dylan Harper
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3. Tre Johnson
4. Ace Bailey
5. Jeremiah Fears
6. VJ Edgecombe
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7. Jase Richardson
8. Noah Essengue
9. Kon Knueppel
10. Cedric Coward
11. Kasparas Jakucionas
12. CMB
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13. Nolan Traore
14. Walter Clayton Jr
15. Carter Bryant
16. Will Riley
17. Derik Queen
....

Something like this. I will be adding more as I watch more
Disclaimer - this is with minimal tape watching of the players past 10 or thereabout so take with a bucket of salt.
 
Rewatching some Tre Johnson and I do think that some of the things he struggled with are very coachable things. The only thing that might not be coachable, that still kind of concerns me is that he definitely avoids contact. But even then he seems to get better over time. This game is a good example of him getting his shoulder in to the defender to create space and get a shot up. He almost never did this at the start of the year (that I could find), but did it more often towards the end of the season. (look at the 3 minute mark) Just don't watch the defensive part of the video.


View: https://youtu.be/DG3_wZtFwnw?si=gqlCHemgkSAGGf_E
 
stitches said:
I have zero worries about a coaching staff's ability to convert a lot of his mid-range pull ups into 3s. This is one of the easiest things teams do nowadays. minimize the midrange... To be honest, teams still need a player or two who can reliably pull up from 2 so I don't even think his pull up 2s are a big problem. I think minimal adjustments in his shot diet would do wonders about his efficiency.
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In general, players just shoot way more 3’s at the NBA level so it isn’t a real “concern” per se. But I think he should try to be one of the league leaders in 3FGA….and maybe right away. That will be key because the other reality about NBA shot diets is that players just don’t shoot as shots at the rim or get many FTA. He’s probably going to be at a rim/ft rate that makes it very difficult to be efficient. But there are guys that still make the tough shot diets work, they are just the elite of the elite.
 
Woo and Givony did “best fit” and “best value”.

Givony’s best fit mock landed VJ at #5, Kon went #2.

Woo’s best value landed Ace at #5, Kon #4, Fears #6, Tre #7.

Definitely seems like Kon top 5 is picking up large momentum.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Rewatching some Tre Johnson and I do think that some of the things he struggled with are very coachable things. The only thing that might not be coachable, that still kind of concerns me is that he definitely avoids contact. But even then he seems to get better over time. This game is a good example of him getting his shoulder in to the defender to create space and get a shot up. He almost never did this at the start of the year (that I could find), but did it more often towards the end of the season. (look at the 3 minute mark) Just don't watch the defensive part of the video.


View: https://youtu.be/DG3_wZtFwnw?si=gqlCHemgkSAGGf_E
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One of the things I picked up on is that rim pressure has as much or more do to with what a player does when there is a defender between he in the basket. I think we put too much emphasis on the ability to actually drive and not enough on the ability to challenge defenders at the hoop. I think you’re right about Tre, he does not like contact. When he sees a defender in front of him he’s very likely to go to his middy instead of attacking. This is why he has so little attempts at the rim and Ft line. To his credit, I think his FTr did improve a bit as the season went on. In theory, it seems like you could coach some of that into him. The only problem I have with that is…when does that ever happen in the NBA?

If he maintains his current rim and free throw rates it would represent a massive development in his game. History shows us that doesn’t happen very often, but anyone can be an exception I suppose.
 
Rewatching Kas and I still think he is a lead guard in the NBA. He can lead an offense. He might be the best player in this draft at getting the offense moving and flowing. His athleticism concerns are overblown. He's crafty enough and quick enough to make whatever he lacks work. Maybe he has to go to the right situation/scheme for that to work, but he's really good at it and is still very young.

The real concern is his shot making. Yes he had to generate more offense for himself than he probably should have, but his shot just didn't fall enough. Going from watching Tre hit incredible shots every single game to Kas missing so many was kind of eye opening. As much as I love Kas and I'm excited to see him in the NBA, I think I have to officially drop him out of the Tre/Ace/VJ tier.

Man, I'm not getting very much accomplished at work today.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Rewatching Kas and I still think he is a lead guard in the NBA. He can lead an offense. He might be the best player in this draft at getting the offense moving and flowing. His athleticism concerns are overblown. He's crafty enough and quick enough to make whatever he lacks work. Maybe he has to go to the right situation/scheme for that to work, but he's really good at it and is still very young.

The real concern is his shot making. Yes he had to generate more offense for himself than he probably should have, but his shot just didn't fall enough. Going from watching Tre hit incredible shots every single game to Kas missing so many was kind of eye opening. As much as I love Kas and I'm excited to see him in the NBA, I think I have to officially drop him out of the Tre/Ace/VJ tier.

Man, I'm not getting very much accomplished at work today.
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Does it move the needle at all the Kas self created more of his offense and was more efficient than all of those players? Or is it just about the actual jump shot not falling? This is especially true in the half court.

I think his rim attack is one of the more polarizing skills in the draft. Well, I actually don’t think it’s polarizing I just don’t think people believe in it. I get why, but I also believe in that part of his game a lot. Besides Harper, he’s the beet ball handler in the draft at beating “drop” coverage. Finishes extremely well, draws fouls extremely well, and is one of the best passers in that situation as well.
 
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