Grayson Allen 2nd Season

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Personally, skill wise I liked what I saw from him all year. To mme every player progresses at their own speed, young older it doesn’t matter. For me he struggled with the speed of the game, his defense was evidence of that

 

[jom2003]

basically a poor man version of pat connaughton

 

[Getting Traded]

Allen was pretty bad at both but he did at least show progress with the on ball defensive stuff from what I saw. I think he's always going to have some size limitations on him too with the on ball stuff, he's one of the smallest 6'3/6'4 dudes that I can remember watching in the last 10 years or so. Like he's taller than Donovan Mitchell but Mitchell just looks way bigger on screen than Allen does.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. He has really good hops. Did you see some of the blocks he had at the rim this year?

 

[JazzFever]

I'm surprised at the level of pessimism. He was horrific in stretches, but he easily passed the eye test on offense in much longer stretches, beginning in summer league. I think the injury was very detrimental to how he played and its causing an overreaction.

Defensively he wasn't good, but he was also a rookie. He is intense and athletic though, and he wants to play so he'll work on it. I see him as a sixth man on a good team and a starter on many teams. He's going to, long term, well pay back his draft position.

 

[Sandman822]

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. He has really good hops. Did you see some of the blocks he had at the rim this year?

He's got good vertical leap for sure but he seems smaller than a 6'3/6'4 dude is my point. Like DWade is the same height and he's much bigger and stronger, Mitchell is shorter but he looks much bigger and stronger, even Rubio looked bigger than him and it's not like Rubio is a strong athlete either. Plus he is likely a below average guard when it comes to lateral speed - he just looks undersized despite being 6'3/6'4.

Maybe he hits the gym over the next few years and he looks better but Allen just seems smaller than he actually is when watching games.

 

[Tragic66]

I'm surprised at the level of pessimism. He was horrific in stretches, but he easily passed the eye test on offense in much longer stretches, beginning in summer league. I think the injury was very detrimental to how he played and its causing an overreaction.

Defensively he wasn't good, but he was also a rookie. He is intense and athletic though, and he wants to play so he'll work on it. I see him as a sixth man on a good team and a starter on many teams. He's going to, long term, well pay back his draft position.

Wow, 6th man and starter on many teams? Is that Grayson’s mum?

 

[Jazz4ever]

His age tempers my expectations. We aren't in any position to be trading away athletic players with a good three point shot though, lets see what happens.

 

[cowhide]

i don't get the age argument. People sound like he is a 30 year old man. Some players come into the league at 19 or 20 and never improve. If a guy works hard he can improve unless his physical body starts to decline. I understand that hard work doesn't always overcome a lack of talent but improvements can still be made. I am not talking about the guy becoming an all-star but he certainly can become a rotational contributor.

I think it was after the Sacramento game when DM gave a comment about this just being the beginning for Allen. I am interested to see Allen this coming year, I will give him until his rookie contract is done before I change my opinion.

 

[Getting Traded]

He's got good vertical leap for sure but he seems smaller than a 6'3/6'4 dude is my point. Like DWade is the same height and he's much bigger and stronger, Mitchell is shorter but he looks much bigger and stronger, even Rubio looked bigger than him and it's not like Rubio is a strong athlete either. Plus he is likely a below average guard when it comes to lateral speed - he just looks undersized despite being 6'3/6'4.

Maybe he hits the gym over the next few years and he looks better but Allen just seems smaller than he actually is when watching games.

I agree his lateral speed is not so good, but he can be very aggressive on the ball. I thought his on-ball defense was a lot better than off-ball as his blocks at the rim demonstrate. Off-ball, he was constantly losing his man.

 

[homeytennis]

He got better the longer he played with the Stars and things started to slow down for him. Now here is the red flag. His stats were comparable to Naz, Cavanaugh, Isiah Cousins and Lyles for the Stars except his free throw percentage was worse. I don't hear people clamoring for those four guys to be on the roster this upcoming season.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

i don't get the age argument. People sound like he is a 30 year old man. Some players come into the league at 19 or 20 and never improve. If a guy works hard he can improve unless his physical body starts to decline. I understand that hard work doesn't always overcome a lack of talent but improvements can still be made. I am not talking about the guy becoming an all-star but he certainly can become a rotational contributor.

I think it was after the Sacramento game when DM gave a comment about this just being the beginning for Allen. I am interested to see Allen this coming year, I will give him until his rookie contract is done before I change my opinion.

Because there are a ton of data points that say age does matter.

Outliers exist, but they are still outliers.

 

[jazzETX]

He's got good vertical leap for sure but he seems smaller than a 6'3/6'4 dude is my point. Like DWade is the same height and he's much bigger and stronger, Mitchell is shorter but he looks much bigger and stronger, even Rubio looked bigger than him and it's not like Rubio is a strong athlete either. Plus he is likely a below average guard when it comes to lateral speed - he just looks undersized despite being 6'3/6'4.

Maybe he hits the gym over the next few years and he looks better but Allen just seems smaller than he actually is when watching games.

his lateral speed is actually very good when he locks in and focuses (one of the best times ever in lane agility at combine); his anticipation and getting used to nba speed had been the problem along with lack of focus off ball/

size-wise, to me he actually ended up looking bigger than i expected. standing next to donovan, he's clearly taller than donovan and has always been a workout warrior at duke winning their summer belt multiple times for being the best conditioned. he definitely looks bigger than rubio. donovan physically looks bigger given his long arms and bulk relative to his height. allen is every bit of 6'4" - 6'5" in shoes and while not crazy long, he has a +4 wingspan relative to his 6'3" barefoot height. I mean, this is not a weak/small looking guy the way you're describing him, especially not when he's been 200-205 lbs.

He got better the longer he played with the Stars and things started to slow down for him. Now here is the red flag. His stats were comparable to Naz, Cavanaugh, Isiah Cousins and Lyles for the Stars except his free throw percentage was worse. I don't hear people clamoring for those four guys to be on the roster this upcoming season.

F the stats, and watch their games, especially considering that naz and cousins had extremely high usage on ball while allen was strictly played off ball. he was quite clearly their best player when he was sent down.

 

[Jack Strop]

Well, at least he's better on D than Jimmer.

 

[homeytennis]

his lateral speed is actually very good when he locks in and focuses (one of the best times ever in lane agility at combine); his anticipation and getting used to nba speed had been the problem along with lack of focus off ball/

size-wise, to me he actually ended up looking bigger than i expected. standing next to donovan, he's clearly taller than donovan and has always been a workout warrior at duke winning their summer belt multiple times for being the best conditioned. he definitely looks bigger than rubio. donovan physically looks bigger given his long arms and bulk relative to his height. allen is every bit of 6'4" - 6'5" in shoes and while not crazy long, he has a +4 wingspan relative to his 6'3" barefoot height. I mean, this is not a weak/small looking guy the way you're describing him, especially not when he's been 200-205 lbs.

F the stats, and watch their games, especially considering that naz and cousins had extremely high usage on ball while allen was strictly played off ball. he was quite clearly their best player when he was sent down.

I was merely doing the ppg, the points per 36, their respective + and -, and the fg percentages and ft percentages.

 

[jazzETX]

I was merely doing the ppg, the points per 36, their respective + and -, and the fg percentages and ft percentages.

i know. they had alot more games played to get numbers, but even then i'm talking eye test in which case he was clearly their best player.

 

[homeytennis]

i know. they had alot more games played to get numbers, but even then i'm talking eye test in which case he was clearly their best player.

I agree with that. I don't think any of the guys I mentioned have NB

i know. they had alot more games played to get numbers, but even then i'm talking eye test in which case he was clearly their best player.

I agree he was the best player. I don't think Naz, Cavanaugh, Cousins or Lyles are NBA players. I hope one or all prove me wrong.

 

[silesian]

Well, at least he's better on D than Jimmer.

So is belly button lint

 

[jazzETX]

I agree with that. I don't think any of the guys I mentioned have NB

I agree he was the best player. I don't think Naz, Cavanaugh, Cousins or Lyles are NBA players. I hope one or all prove me wrong.

i've liked some things i've seen from cousins and cavanaugh, and they could have a chance. I don't see it with naz and lyles although i love what i've seen of their attitudes and personality.

 

[candrew]

Very little doubt that Allen turns out to be a service-able NBA player. I can easily see him bouncing around the league for 8 or 9 years. Mostly role player - maybe spot starts here and there.

I just don't think the talent is there to be a difference maker.

 

[candrew]

Because there are a ton of data points that say age does matter.

Outliers exist, but they are still outliers.

Yeah, but I think it's obvious the more raw ability a player has the more likely they are to enter the league at a younger age. So that's where the largest pool of talent is. Age in and of itself is a misleading measurement.

In Allen's case, I think most folks would agree he stayed at Duke for 4 years to his own detriment in terms of draft position.

As far as potential outliers, he's definitely one of them.