Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

[cowhide]

Jazz know what they have (and don't have) with Hayward. Known Quantity.

Wiggins does not impress me as someone who would stay in Utah...

Would he have chemistry with the team? ..

Tough decision for Jazz in the next 2 days.

I do feel if a deal is not done b4 the season Hayward will be gone either via trade or an RFA we do not want to match.

Just business.

Hayward is a known quality. A talented player who has average 14.1 and 3 rebounds last year. No one at this point knows what Gordon will do this year with more responsibility. If he steps up and averages 20 pts a game with similar shooting percentages than give him his money but if he averages 15-16 points with lower percentages than I say he has shown what he is a very good role player. Gordon has been pretty inconsistent during his short tenure with Utah. He needs to become more consistent.

What criteria are you using to predict that Wiggins won't stay in Utah? The kid went to prep school in West Virginia and he is going to college in Kansas. Not exactly huge metro areas. How do you know if Hayward wants to stay? Favors signed his extension saying he wanted to stay. While Gordon passed on the first offer, so maybe he doesn't want to be here. Where is his girlfriend from?

On all accounts Wiggins has been described as a good kid and teammate.

Well if he doesn't want to be here then the Jazz should trade him, they have options. If Wiggins or Parker or Exum or Randle are as good as advertised they will be better than Hayward at 1/3 of the price. The Jazz will have more options if they trade him. Just because he hasn't sign the extension doesn't mean he won't return. The Jazz need to let him go if he is given the Max unless he proves to be a MAX player on a winning team. So far that is unknown.

It is just business and in business you have to be smart or you find yourself in the poor house.

 

[b_line]

So if Hayward is asking for 4 years 52 million, that is about 11 million total below the max. The max contract hayward can be signed to is 4 years and about 62.5 million, or 5 years and about 80 million.

When people say that he is asking for "near max", at 13 million per year, that is not entirely true, as the max does start at 13.7 million, but it would end up being closer to 17 million per year on a 4 year contract, as the max has 7.5% raises per year.

So it looks like Hayward's camp does not think he is a max player.

Is he worth over 11 million per year to the Jazz? If they split the difference in the demands from either side, that would be 4/46, or 11.5 million per year. It is a little much, but if Hayward improves about 15% from his per 36, and is able to improve his shooting percentage in the future (not likely this season) then he is probably worth about that per year.

15% improvement is not out of the question, but becoming a superstar and max player probably is for Hayward.

 

[colton]

$11.5 mill per year is far too much for the player I think Hayward is. If he can prove me wrong, great, then I will fully support the Jazz paying him that much or more next season. But not now.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Just heard Locke on the radio and I think he made a great point. He said that he thinks that both sides are essentially negotiating in good faith and trying to find a way to make it work but that both sides can make a great case for walking away from the table (basically that Hayward would be the third best player on a contender and you just can't pay that for a guy like that while Hayward is poised to put up a bunch of fake stats on a bad team and all it takes is one GM to blow the dough).

I really want to keep Hayward, but you can't be dumb about it. The next couple of days are going to be interesting, but not as interesting as the following eight months if they don't come to an agreement.

 

[Gameface]

I like Hayward. He's a player the Jazz drafted and I'm a fan of the Jazz. from that perspective I want them to pay to keep him. But if I back away just a little I can remind myself that overpaying can kill a franchise for years and years. Not just until the contract is up, but for decades based on the possible opportunities that having bad contracts can cause the team to pass up.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I like Hayward. He's a player the Jazz drafted and I'm a fan of the Jazz. from that perspective I want them to pay to keep him. But if I back away just a little I can remind myself that overpaying can kill a franchise for years and years. Not just until the contract is up, but for decades based on the possible opportunities that having bad contracts can cause the team to pass up.

Could this be a possible Dominique Wilkins reference? (which isn't to say that the Jazz had bad contracts, just that finances matter)

 

[udflyer]

I like Hayward. He's a player the Jazz drafted and I'm a fan of the Jazz. from that perspective I want them to pay to keep him. But if I back away just a little I can remind myself that overpaying can kill a franchise for years and years. Not just until the contract is up, but for decades based on the possible opportunities that having bad contracts can cause the team to pass up.

I like Hayward a lot.

With that said, I think 4/44 (if offered) is way more than fair and he should jump on it like a hot 18 year old (oh...he does that already )

Anything more is overpaid

 

[b_line]

4/44 with incentives up to 49. That is what I would like to see.

 

[Siro]

I like Hayward a lot.

With that said, I think 4/44 (if offered) is way more than fair and he should jump on it like a hot 18 year old (oh...he does that already )

Anything more is overpaid

I'm so confused. You're the OP, right? The one who started this thread to argue that 13m/y is a steal since there's a chance he'll be paid max money by another team if he goes RFA? You've defended your position for the past 10 pages, and now, all of a sudden, 4/44 is "way more than fair"?

 

[b_line]

I'm so confused. You're the OP, right? The one who started this thread to argue that 13m/y is a steal since there's a chance he'll be paid max money by another team if he goes RFA? You've defended your position for the past 10 pages, and now, all of a sudden, 4/44 is "way more than fair"?

This whole thread has honestly been like 15 posters arguing the same thing against each other. I think all of us want to get Hayward for way less than what he is asking for, and think the max we want to pay is 11.5 or so.

It is confusing about UD flyer though, posting that Hay should get all the money, and then conceding that he thinks 4/44 is fair. Glad he is not the GM...

 

[udflyer]

I am rooting for him to get 13 because I do think he will get that as rfa

I also like sticking it to the man



My practical side says he should take. 4/44 if offered

If either side walks in the next day I think he will not be with jazz next year

 

[Ben10]

If either side walks in the next day I think he will not be with jazz next year

I would say that the chances of Hayward not being on the Jazz next season is less that 2% He would have to get a Max offer with a large poison pill for the Jazz not to match. Cus if he gets anything around 13 in RFA its because he has a breakout season this year and well be worth that kind of money to Utah