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How long are you going to tollerate losing?

A few points that might annoy, but meh.

We have some serious competition in the tanking department, with the Celtics and Lakers having much worse rosters than ours, not even counting the regular players. While people think that Corbin is a horrible coach, he is not going to 'play nice' and lose a ton of games on purpose. Frankly, if Jefferson plays better than Alec or Gordon, he'll play and start over them. Same goes for Andris. Now I doubt that happens, but it still would if conditions are right. I still don't believe this is a tank, this is a rebuilding effort, and I still believe that the Jazz are past the sucking years and it's time to move on to the upward trending playoff years. Let other teams tank, it'll only improve our playoff position.

(the only thing that prevents this is the point guard position. it'll be hard to win if trey doesn't have a lot of help here.)
 
cctrackstar said:
A few points that might annoy, but meh.

We have some serious competition in the tanking department, with the Celtics and Lakers having much worse rosters than ours, not even counting the regular players. While people think that Corbin is a horrible coach, he is not going to 'play nice' and lose a ton of games on purpose. Frankly, if Jefferson plays better than Alec or Gordon, he'll play and start over them. Same goes for Andris. Now I doubt that happens, but it still would if conditions are right. I still don't believe this is a tank, this is a rebuilding effort, and I still believe that the Jazz are past the sucking years and it's time to move on to the upward trending playoff years. Let other teams tank, it'll only improve our playoff position.

(the only thing that prevents this is the point guard position. it'll be hard to win if trey doesn't have a lot of help here.)
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Even with their great youth, OKC struggled for a couple of seasons. The Jazz certainly do not have the worst team in the NBA, but there's not a snowball's chance in Salt Lake they make the playoffs. And even if they could, what would be their ceiling...the 8th seed replacing LA? Sorry, I see that slot going to a much improved NOLA team or even Portland. Speaking of which, compare Portland's 33-win season to the team Utah will have: it's remarkably similar (good starters, terrible bench), except for the fact Portland had EXPERIENCED starters in Aldridge, Matthews and Batum and an incredible ROY in Lillard.

We're still in rebuild mode and the Jazz will win 25-30 games this season. You're right; there are a few teams that will be worse like Phoenix, Orlando and Boston. But Utah should be right there in the 5-8 range. Worse than that (well, outside of winning a top-3 selection in the lottery) means we had injuries or Kanter, Favors and/or Burks were disappointments. In that case, we will need a great pick to replace one of those guys. Better than that means a few of the youngsters really took off. And I'm ok with that too. We'll still get a solid player in the draft. Not a star, but there would be less need because the youngsters raised their level of play.
 
We don't need to be the worst to have a chance at Wiggins. We just need to be 3rd-4th worst. History seems to have suggested this.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
This.
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Beat me to it. Grrrrr.

gromit_angry_eyes.jpg
 
So, is anyone going to watch the games this year? What with the terrible play and losing and all that, is there enough interest in the play of the young players to offset the fact that you never expect them to win?

The funny thing is that the same people who hate Corbin for losing games are petitioning for tanking games this year.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
We don't need to be the worst to have a chance at Wiggins. We just need to be 3rd-4th worst. History seems to have suggested this.
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Not to mention, with the players we have now, along with the draft picks and other assets we have amassed, it's possible the Jazz could have virtually any player they want in the next draft. If the price is right.
 
cctrackstar said:
So, is anyone going to watch the games this year? What with the terrible play and losing and all that, is there enough interest in the play of the young players to offset the fact that you never expect them to win?

The funny thing is that the same people who hate Corbin for losing games are petitioning for tanking games this year.
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I think there is a ton of interest in watching the young guys get experience and grow in front of our eyes.
And I don't dislike Corbin for losing, I disliked his substitutions and his overall game mgmt. Losing is one thing, but losing because you're an idiot is another.

I would rather have a new coach right now, though.
 
PKM said:
I think there is a ton of interest in watching the young guys get experience and grow in front of our eyes.
And I don't dislike Corbin for losing, I disliked his substitutions and his overall game mgmt. Losing is one thing, but losing because you're an idiot is another.

I would rather have a new coach right now, though.
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Yeah I think this will be a fun season win or lose.

Corbin has become a figure head. Senior basketball advisor Jerry Sloan was hired for a reason.
 
cctrackstar said:
So, is anyone going to watch the games this year? What with the terrible play and losing and all that, is there enough interest in the play of the young players to offset the fact that you never expect them to win?

The funny thing is that the same people who hate Corbin for losing games are petitioning for tanking games this year.
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Not the same thing. We hated Corbin for playing guys like Bell, Josh Howard, Foye, etc. too much. For not reducing the playing time of Jefferson and Millsap 5-10 mins and giving it to Favors and Kanter, two players who showed flashes of brilliance (i.e. 20/20 games) when given the chance, but all too often were rewarded for their efforts by long stretches on the bench. And we hate Corbin for his refusal to run any kind of offense outside of toss it into Al and for failing to address the team's defensive woes. To be honest, I'm really not sure WHAT Corbin did in 2+ years.

I don't like losing any more than the next guy. But I DO want the team to have a chance at building something special. And the ONLY way that happens is if we can FINALLY see what we have with Favors, Kanter and Burks, give them playing time along with Burke and Hayward and then draft a solid rotation player in 2014 - or even a star depending on our draft position. And remove the temptation to play washed-up vets by providing Ty with nothing but really bad backups.
 
Come on guys, you all witnessed how this young core played last season.. They don't look like tanking teams at all.
However they lost CLE, MIL and CHI games due to the crunch time mistakes on their road trip, remember? Well, I think we might see more of those undeservedly lost games this year too. Maybe not.

In any case I am well sure young Jazz players will try their best on the court.. So, as long as the effort, determination and hard-work is there I'd not mind losing 10 straight games.
 
jjscap said:
Come on guys, you all witnessed how this young core played last season.. They don't look like tanking teams at all.
However they lost CLE, MIL and CHI games due to the crunch time mistakes on their road trip, remember? Well, I think we might see more of those undeservedly lost games this year too. Maybe not.

In any case I am well sure young Jazz players will try their best on the court.. So, as long as the effort, determination and hard-work is there I'd not mind losing 10 straight games.
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I keep bringing up Portland because I think it's a fair comparison: great starting unit, but absolutely no bench = 33 wins last season. No matter how well the youngsters play, there's still a huge dropoff with the subs. Starters are also going to struggle at times, especially on offense and especially on the road. Maybe .500 team at home, but more than 10 road wins will be a stretch.
 
Why do people hate on Corbin for doing as he was told? KOC and DL made it all but clear that the organization wanted the vets playing. Methinks the anger is misplaced.
 
Ok, let's look at our bech: Raul Neto (hopefully): looks pretty talented. either Burks or Rush: ya, talented. Marvin Williams: underachieved last year while injured, but still a #2 pick. Jeremy Evans: showed promise in the summer league. Andris Biendrins: 11th pick seven foot tall power forward who averaged 12 and 11 five years ago and is still only 27. I heard it from Lindsey's mouth that they are going to try to awake his career. Richard Jefferson: former all star who has lost a step. Not bad for ten per game. Rudy Gobert: sure looks talented to me

The fact is............wait for it................We have a talented bench if the team gains chemistry and desire.
 
heyhey said:
Yeah I think this will be a fun season win or lose.

Corbin has become a figure head. Senior basketball advisor Jerry Sloan was hired for a reason.
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Agreed this will be a fun season. I thought last season was as painful a season to watch as any I can remember with the Jazz, and that goes back to pre-Stockton days.

I also hope your second point is correct.

Let's see, they bring in Malone to work with Favors/Kanter/Gobert, Stockton to work with Burk, and Sloan to work with Corbin. The last one is probably the least likely to learn, but hey you never know.
 
cctrackstar said:
Ok, let's look at our bech: Raul Neto (hopefully): looks pretty talented. either Burks or Rush: ya, talented. Marvin Williams: underachieved last year while injured, but still a #2 pick. Jeremy Evans: showed promise in the summer league. Andris Biendrins: 11th pick seven foot tall power forward who averaged 12 and 11 five years ago and is still only 27. I heard it from Lindsey's mouth that they are going to try to awake his career. Richard Jefferson: former all star who has lost a step. Not bad for ten per game. Rudy Gobert: sure looks talented to me

The fact is............wait for it................We have a talented bench if the team gains chemistry and desire.
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Neto is NOT coming over. Burks OR Rush, I'll give you that one. Williams is out for 1/2 the season. Didn't show much last year before getting hurt. Evans? All vets look like all-stars during SL. Take any veteran on a downward slide and you can say they were great FIVE years ago. By that line of reasoning, bring back Watson, Tinsley and Bell. They were very good players 5 years ago! Jefferson and Biedrins aer CRAP. And Gobert has promise, but he's going to commit as many horrible plays as good ones.
 
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