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I Don't Blame The Players

LoPo

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I've slept on it. It is incredibly unfair to blame a couple players or one trade. @Handlogten's Heros has fully documented the incredibly stupid run of FO moves the last few years.

Add those moves to a coaching staff that lacks any flexibility in scheme or rotations. Getting outcoached repeatedly. Never playing young players who could provide much needed energy in tough times.

Our roster is terrible for the modern playoffs. We only have two guys who can create their own shot (Don and JC), and we have zero go-to perimeter defenders. If Don is off, and he is really off right now, we don't have an answer.

These players haven't choked - they have been ill-equipped running schemes that can be outcoached with personnel that is inadequate.

It is incredibly sad how badly the front office and coaching staff have screwed up around Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell.

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I agree and disagree. Yes all start from FO and coach and they are the main responsible for the failure. But we are talking about guys making a lot of money and considering themselves as superstar. Clarskon do the job, Rudy and Don half and the other jus't dont. Hope they show some pride at game 6 and 7 if we are lucky enough to have a game 7.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
I agree and disagree. Yes all start from FO and coach and they are the main responsible for the failure. But we are talking about guys making a lot of money and considering themselves as superstar. Clarskon do the job, Rudy and Don half and the other jus't dont. Hope they show some pride at game 6 and 7 if we are lucky enough to have a game 7.
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Contracts don't equate to success.

We could do a little better if coached better, but the roster construction has clearly set a low ceiling. Every other NBA team has young, long, athletic players all over the floor. We literally have zero of those.

Our demise reminds me of the total collapse job done by Danny Ferry in Cleveland after LeBron was drafted. A promising start just got worse and worse with every bone head front office decision. By the time LeBron had enough, he was surrounded by aging overpaid undersized guys who couldn't help at all in the playoffs.

I'm not comparing anybody on our team to LeBron James by any means. I'm just talking about a clear front office fail job.

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The current situation is a collective effort to be sure, but I agree with the sentiment that the FO is the most to blame. At least two offseasons of downright terrible management and nothing to fix the obvious flaw on this roster.

- Heads must roll. I’d fire Zanik and all of the higher level FO people that are still around from the Lindsey era. We need new blood and new thinking.
- I’d mutually part ways with Quin and his entire staff. I’d hire no one in the Quin coaching tree. We need new blood and new thinking. Stotts would be fine.
- Field offers on literally everyone this offseason. Go in with a plan — either the full on rebuild, or a retooling that gets us significantly younger. Make the trades that best accomplish the goal, even if it means trading Don or Rudy. Hard to say which players should be out until we know what the market is.
- As one exception to the above point, Is am done watching Royce O’Neale. He’s an incredibly frustrating player, and his cheap shots in this series have really soured me on him. Get him off the team.
 
We need a full rebuild cuz we don't have the assets for a moderate retool. Meaning we may have to part ways with DM, Rudy or both. We ain't getting anything valuable or game changing by trading Conley/Royce/Bogey/JC.
 
If rebuild is the plan, it really won't matter who our coach is because we are gonna suck for a while regardless. And Quin may be one of the better guys for the job cuz he did pull us out of a ****** rebuild job left by Corbin once before.
 
Jazz roster construction is less than ideal but they should be able to win this series. Them not doing so is 100% on the players.

Biggest offenders: Conley and Mitchell

Clarkson, Bogey, Gobert are getting the job done. Sucks that no x factor role player has stepped up in a significant way. That's where we really miss Ingles
 
I’d hire that red headed dude from Dallas. He’s turned a team that was shot on defense into a solid defense and is Kidds X’s and O’s tactician. He’s made Kidd look like a good coach so that’s pretty solid.

I’d also do a complete tear down. Unless you get something amazing for Conley this team doesn’t have a good path forward to contend. I think every player has positive trade value except Rudy Gay… I think even Conley does though his play has slipped. JC has helped his value.

We needed to hit on 1-2 of our picks or cap exception signings and just kept whiffing (though I think Jared Butler will be a really good player).
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz roster construction is less than ideal but they should be able to win this series. Them not doing so is 100% on the players.

Biggest offenders: Conley and Mitchell

Clarkson, Bogey, Gobert are getting the job done. Sucks that no x factor role player has stepped up in a significant way. That's where we really miss Ingles
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They were given a gift and straight rejected it by playing like dog ****.
 
jom2003 said:
If rebuild is the plan, it really won't matter who our coach is because we are gonna suck for a while regardless. And Quin may be one of the better guys for the job cuz he did pull us out of a ****** rebuild job left by Corbin once before.
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Quin doesn't seem to be able to run any scheme outside of offensively limited big men. We have literally hitched everything to a system around Gobert, Favors, Whiteside, Ed Davis, Dok, etc. That's not the modern NBA. Some is fine, but Quin insists on running it all the time.

I think he might have to go too. Not enough flexibility. Doesn't give the youth a chance either so I'm concerned about a rebuild with him in charge.
 
Players deserve blame but the harsh reality is that they just aren't good enough.

The talent issue is real. And I blame the FO for constructing a team that's both obsolete for modern day basketball AND lacks true talent to compete against other top level teams. Great teams win games on bad shooting nights all the time. But for the Jazz it's game over whenever they can't make their open threes.
 
LoPo said:
Quin doesn't seem to be able to run any scheme outside of offensively limited big men. We have literally hitched everything to a system around Gobert, Favors, Whiteside, Ed Davis, Dok, etc. That's not the modern NBA. Some is fine, but Quin insists on running it all the time.

I think he might have to go too. Not enough flexibility. Doesn't give the youth a chance either so I'm concerned about a rebuild with him in charge.
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Oh he needs to go. He can’t even admit there are issues so why would he be able to adapt. He’s had too much time and has influence to get players that would help him be more flexible and has done nothing.

I also watch a game like last night and no one except JC is getting separation and I think why the **** did you not develop JB this year. He can be an offensive catalyst but Quin wanted him to play like Royce and stay out of the way. He’s also great at touching the ball on defense and you watch how Brunson, Luka, Dinwiddie drive and mess around in the paint with no threat of getting stripped or turning it over… it’s a big part of why they are murdering in the paint and midrange. Not saying JB changes that but there was some good **** there and all Quin could say was “JB needs to learn to play with others.” GTFOH
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz roster construction is less than ideal but they should be able to win this series. Them not doing so is 100% on the players.

Biggest offenders: Conley and Mitchell

Clarkson, Bogey, Gobert are getting the job done. Sucks that no x factor role player has stepped up in a significant way. That's where we really miss Ingles
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This is more than just one game. This transpired last year against the Clippers, the tail end of the season, and this series. Our issues are a pattern that are much more than just the players.

Clarkson is the lone bright spot. He has played well.

On one post you want to blame the players, and then the next post you applaud Bojan. He arguably had the worst performance last night. He missed 5 wide open 3 pointers. He got smoked by Luka defensively which isn't all his fault, but he didn't play well.

Gobert is our rim protector and rebounder. The Mavs literally scored at the rim all night (46 points in the paint) and outrebounded us by 9 (49 total rebounds with 11 offensive rebounds). Gobert had a good Game 1, but our scheme has been exposed once again. It's not all his fault, but he hasn't been "getting the job done". Dallas also shot terribly last night (-28% from 3) or they would beaten us even more soundly.
 
LoPo said:
This is more than just one game. This transpired last year against the Clippers, the tail end of the season, and this series. Our issues are a pattern that are much more than just the players.

Clarkson is the lone bright spot. He has played well.

On one post you want to blame the players, and then the next post you applaud Bojan. He arguably had the worst performance last night. He missed 5 wide open 3 pointers. He got smoked by Luka defensively which isn't all his fault, but he didn't play well.

Gobert is our rim protector and rebounder. The Mavs literally scored at the rim all night (46 points in the paint) and outrebounded us by 9 (49 total rebounds with 11 offensive rebounds). Gobert had a good Game 1, but our scheme has been exposed once again. It's not all his fault, but he hasn't been "getting the job done". Dallas also shot terribly last night (-28% from 3) or they would beaten us even more soundly.
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Bogey had his first bad game after carrying us. He isn't our star. I don't expect every game to be a great game for him. It sucks he went completely cold, but he has way outperformed my expectations. He also led the charge defensively in game 4 that won us the game despite being our most limited defender.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Oh he needs to go. He can’t even admit there are issues so why would he be able to adapt. He’s had too much time and has influence to get players that would help him be more flexible and has done nothing.

I also watch a game like last night and no one except JC is getting separation and I think why the **** did you not develop JB this year. He can be an offensive catalyst but Quin wanted him to play like Royce and stay out of the way. He’s also great at touching the ball on defense and you watch how Brunson, Luka, Dinwiddie drive and mess around in the paint with no threat of getting stripped or turning it over… it’s a big part of why they are murdering in the paint and midrange. Not saying JB changes that but there was some good **** there and all Quin could say was “JB needs to learn to play with others.” GTFOH
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It's so incredibly frustrating that Butler hasn't played more. He's a savvy player. Like you said, JC was getting separation, and we need more guys who can do that. It's a shame that kid hasn't gotten a real shot.

At this rate, NAW and Butler might get a lot of playing time next season. Too little too late.
 
Butler and NAW need more PT next year. Both their contracts are essentially up - we need to know if these guys can stick or not.

Our future is dire.
 
There is a lot of blame to go around. But the players on the court absolutely get the brunt of it. Every night we see other teams playing their asses off. Scrapping for everything even if they are huge underdogs. And then there’s the Jazz…

More disappointing than an early exit is a team that doesn’t play hard and it not enjoyable to watch in the slightest.
 
Bogey did not get it done in game 5, he sucked big time. JC and Rudy were the only two guys who played well. I am not entirely shocked because this team has been mentally weak for the most part. The roster is flawed but LoPo saying he doesn't blame the players is ridiculous. You have to make shots and the Jazz have been throwing up bricks. The front office and coach deserve blame too. You win as an organization and you lose as one. Changes need to be changed next year.
 
cowhide said:
Bogey did not get it done in game 5, he sucked big time. JC and Rudy were the only two guys who played well. I am not entirely shocked because this team has been mentally weak for the most part. The roster is flawed but LoPo saying he doesn't blame the players is ridiculous. You have to make shots and the Jazz have been throwing up bricks. The front office and coach deserve blame too. You win as an organization and you lose as one. Changes need to be changed next year.
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I blame the players game to game.

I don't blame the players for our lack of answers because they have not been adequately assembled or coached.

Our players have been trying to stop a cut artery with a tourniquet. Eventually, we are going to bleed out because we haven't adequately addressed the issues.

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