GVC
Well-Known Member
No one is gong to say that. Kanter is clearly a better prospect than TT or Williams.
I have seen the light....
- Thread starter Scorpjazz
- Start date
I would have dealt Jefferson for Kaman (nothing) before the deadline last year preemptively, even though conventional wisdom at the time suggested we could 'get more' for Jefferson. The bad news is that the front office hasn't/won't/refuses to acknowledge this and we plan to keep on keepin' on.
There is zero evidence that is true. Unless you provide it.
Boozer came back to the Jazz when he got his offer sheet with Chicago and gave them a chance to match (or exceed in some way, probably). That's how the trade exception talks started.
The way I remember it is he agreed to a deal with Chicago then after they were kind enough to do a trade.
You can't sign a contract then do a trade. The trade is part of the contract, otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
orangello
Well-Known Member
There is hope in this whole situation. Last season the Jazz traded Memo. I really thought they would have held onto him for one last season. This leads me to believe that the Jazz can make a trade and they will make one if the feel it is necessary.
That is where the hope ends though. The time to trade someone started during preseason. Let's just hope that there is a team that needs to contend now that needs a big man of Jefferson's ability.
That is where the hope ends though. The time to trade someone started during preseason. Let's just hope that there is a team that needs to contend now that needs a big man of Jefferson's ability.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
1. Jefferson is fat and lazy. Does not have a motor. Doesn't have a killer instinct. Just doesn't care. I don't think that he is all about winning. Doesn't play defense. Is turnover prone. A Black Hole. Can't get to the free throw line. Hurts this team. Trade him for young players or picks. Can't play the pick n' roll. I'm sick of seeing him going one on one all the time. Is a good guy with good personality but I don't like his game.
2. Millsap is an undersized power forward with average athleticizm at best. Accept it. Get's often outplayed on the defensive end by bigger, quicker and more athletic players. He is a decent player but better suited to come off the bench. He will demand too much money and is obviously not ready to be a sixth man. So keep him this year and let him walk next year or trade him and get some picks or players in return before it’s too late.
3. Favors is a stud. Kid blocks shots and plays defense like only a few big men in this league. Good motor! This alone should earn him 30 minutes per game as a starter despite his offensive flaws. It’s difficult to be good if you have to prove yourself during short playing stretches. That’s a lot of pressure. Needs more consistent minutes.
4. Kanter is a stud. The best player in the preseason. Had a rough start at the beginning of the season but is figuring things out. Incredible motor. Will only get better. Should get 25 minutes per game and could start, imo. Has lost some confidence due to the pressure. It’s difficult if you have to prove yourself withing 3-4 minutes of playing stretches. Needs more consistent minutes like Favors.
5. Hayward is the other guy I'm happy with. Deserves a starting role at the two position. No doubt about it.
6. Ma Williams is just terrible. A guy with his size and athleticizm should play more aggressive and attack the basket more. Is really one dimensional: just taking outside shots. Doesn't deserve to start at all. An other big disappointment so far. When he can't hit his shots, he is useless. Plays decent defense.
8. Foye is a chucker but still can help this team if scoring is needed. Burks is a chucker as well and forces things. But i still think Burks will become a good player but needs more playing time. I like his game. At least he is attacking the basket and goes to the free throw line. Plays in a hurry due to short playing time. Was also a reason for his strugglings. Our young kids play under pressure and is difficult to bring something to the table with this short playing periods. You can't find a rythm! They only can get into rythm with more consistent game time night in, night out!
7. Mo Williams can be a big spark for this team. But better comming off the bench as a sixth man as a scoring spark. Is a little bit inconsistent and really undersized. Not a good passer, neither does he have the best court vision. We need more of a pass-first point guard. A pure point guard coming via trade or more likely through the draft via trade, too. Plays a bit out of control sometimes an can't control the tempo.
8. We are not a playoff team with this coach and with this starting lineup and how the minutes are distributed. Accept it! Look for the future and get our young guys going. It’s the better result in a longer period of time.
9. Fire Corbin and get rid of Al Jefferson. We need a young pure point guard that can start and an other big man coming off the bench behind Kanter and Favors.
10. My starting lineup for this year:
C-Favors (30-35 minutes per game)- Kanter
PF-Kanter (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams- Millsap- Evans
SF-Millsap (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams (20-25 minutes per game)
SG-Hayward (25-30 minutes per game)- Burks (15-20 minutes per game)
PG-Mo Williams (25-30 minutes per game) – Foye (15-20 minutes per game)
We should resign Mo Williams and let him come off the bench to be a scoring spark with the second unit. Let a young point guard (coming via trade of Jefferson and or Millsap, as a draft pick or current player) to take over his starting role. Resign Ma Williams for 5-6 Millions per year for over three seasons and Mo Williams for 5 millions per year over two years.
11. Since we won't make the playoffs this year, we have nothing to lose. We should use this year to develop our young core and give them more consistent minutes. The combination of Jefferson and Corbin won't get it done. Ma Will and Mo Will are better suited to come off the bench after this year if we decide to keep them both.
2. Millsap is an undersized power forward with average athleticizm at best. Accept it. Get's often outplayed on the defensive end by bigger, quicker and more athletic players. He is a decent player but better suited to come off the bench. He will demand too much money and is obviously not ready to be a sixth man. So keep him this year and let him walk next year or trade him and get some picks or players in return before it’s too late.
3. Favors is a stud. Kid blocks shots and plays defense like only a few big men in this league. Good motor! This alone should earn him 30 minutes per game as a starter despite his offensive flaws. It’s difficult to be good if you have to prove yourself during short playing stretches. That’s a lot of pressure. Needs more consistent minutes.
4. Kanter is a stud. The best player in the preseason. Had a rough start at the beginning of the season but is figuring things out. Incredible motor. Will only get better. Should get 25 minutes per game and could start, imo. Has lost some confidence due to the pressure. It’s difficult if you have to prove yourself withing 3-4 minutes of playing stretches. Needs more consistent minutes like Favors.
5. Hayward is the other guy I'm happy with. Deserves a starting role at the two position. No doubt about it.
6. Ma Williams is just terrible. A guy with his size and athleticizm should play more aggressive and attack the basket more. Is really one dimensional: just taking outside shots. Doesn't deserve to start at all. An other big disappointment so far. When he can't hit his shots, he is useless. Plays decent defense.
8. Foye is a chucker but still can help this team if scoring is needed. Burks is a chucker as well and forces things. But i still think Burks will become a good player but needs more playing time. I like his game. At least he is attacking the basket and goes to the free throw line. Plays in a hurry due to short playing time. Was also a reason for his strugglings. Our young kids play under pressure and is difficult to bring something to the table with this short playing periods. You can't find a rythm! They only can get into rythm with more consistent game time night in, night out!
7. Mo Williams can be a big spark for this team. But better comming off the bench as a sixth man as a scoring spark. Is a little bit inconsistent and really undersized. Not a good passer, neither does he have the best court vision. We need more of a pass-first point guard. A pure point guard coming via trade or more likely through the draft via trade, too. Plays a bit out of control sometimes an can't control the tempo.
8. We are not a playoff team with this coach and with this starting lineup and how the minutes are distributed. Accept it! Look for the future and get our young guys going. It’s the better result in a longer period of time.
9. Fire Corbin and get rid of Al Jefferson. We need a young pure point guard that can start and an other big man coming off the bench behind Kanter and Favors.
10. My starting lineup for this year:
C-Favors (30-35 minutes per game)- Kanter
PF-Kanter (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams- Millsap- Evans
SF-Millsap (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams (20-25 minutes per game)
SG-Hayward (25-30 minutes per game)- Burks (15-20 minutes per game)
PG-Mo Williams (25-30 minutes per game) – Foye (15-20 minutes per game)
We should resign Mo Williams and let him come off the bench to be a scoring spark with the second unit. Let a young point guard (coming via trade of Jefferson and or Millsap, as a draft pick or current player) to take over his starting role. Resign Ma Williams for 5-6 Millions per year for over three seasons and Mo Williams for 5 millions per year over two years.
11. Since we won't make the playoffs this year, we have nothing to lose. We should use this year to develop our young core and give them more consistent minutes. The combination of Jefferson and Corbin won't get it done. Ma Will and Mo Will are better suited to come off the bench after this year if we decide to keep them both.
I don't know what you're getting at but I'm talking about a sign and trade.
pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
You seriously don't remember all the interviews he was doing with Miami and Chicago radio stations?
Pure conjecture. I don't recall him saying "Yeah, I want to get out of here."
Yes. The trade is part of the contract in a sign-and-trade. Otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until after December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
The Jazz FO straight up told him he wasn't part of their future plans IIRC.
CitizenofCapua
Well-Known Member
bjunior
Well-Known Member
well, pretty good speech
6. he's not terrible, i think marvin will be fine if this team turn things around
11. we should have done this last year already.. at least more of that
I don't think it can be quantified into a precise timeframe, but yes, I think we'd be much further ahead if our young guys would have gotten significantly more burn and we ended up with a lottery pick (Barnes?).
orangello
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying. I know it has been discussed here before but unless you are the Lakers, Heat or Spurs your Window of winning something meaningful is very short.
Look at the Thunder. I'm not saying that they will not get back to the finals but they were close to keeping the most important parts of their finals run together but they play exactly 0 games after getting to the finals.
I hope the Jazz opportunity has not already been missed.
CitizenofCapua
Well-Known Member
My point of view;
After Williams&Memo&Boozer era end Jazz should have start from scratch in rebuilding process. That way natural development period would give our young guys pt & burn they need for years to come. We were got our high draft picks and Favors ready (williams, brewer trade) it would be a shorter process than the most teams that we see on the rebuilding process like Cavs, Wolves etc. and would be similar to OKC`s with same group of age youngsters.
But we didn`t show the patient and made the hasty Big Al trade and give away Koufos and future 1st round picks and tried to be a above average team at the strong west unnecessarily & desperately. Now we stuck with a team that veterans at the leading role and every player on the team can claim that he deserves +20 minutes and you cant argue about that.
Current situation it`s not just about Corbin and his wrong decisions, in the same time it`s about poor GM decisions that had been made for the last 3 year.
After Williams&Memo&Boozer era end Jazz should have start from scratch in rebuilding process. That way natural development period would give our young guys pt & burn they need for years to come. We were got our high draft picks and Favors ready (williams, brewer trade) it would be a shorter process than the most teams that we see on the rebuilding process like Cavs, Wolves etc. and would be similar to OKC`s with same group of age youngsters.
But we didn`t show the patient and made the hasty Big Al trade and give away Koufos and future 1st round picks and tried to be a above average team at the strong west unnecessarily & desperately. Now we stuck with a team that veterans at the leading role and every player on the team can claim that he deserves +20 minutes and you cant argue about that.
Current situation it`s not just about Corbin and his wrong decisions, in the same time it`s about poor GM decisions that had been made for the last 3 year.