Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
My biggest regret is not trading my wife before she left me. I got nothing in return but a bunch of bills.
If Hayward left, or were traded.
- Thread starter Engorged On Unborn Gore
- Start date
My biggest regret is not trading my wife before she left me. I got nothing in return but a bunch of bills.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
They don't need to flip him for a superstar, just get rid of him for mostly expiring oontracts and picks, and they can replace him..
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
Hayward and Neto for Oladipo, Hezonja and Jason Smith effectively flips Hayward for 2 lottery picks. Victor and Alec can both play some PG..
This leaves the Jazz with only 40-something mil on the books for next season, with most of the contracts signed, so they could use some of Haywards salary on a big name free agent, like Harrison Barnes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGBOeoB3Cc0
It's about snowballing assets, and guaranteeing returns on a big-time investment, not personal insecurities.
This leaves the Jazz with only 40-something mil on the books for next season, with most of the contracts signed, so they could use some of Haywards salary on a big name free agent, like Harrison Barnes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGBOeoB3Cc0
It's about snowballing assets, and guaranteeing returns on a big-time investment, not personal insecurities.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
Y'all are forgetting if they run up the salary cap like I'm saying, they can really go way over the cap matching all of these restricted deals the following summers and open up a nice sized window to make a playoff run.
With Hayward here that whole process will be a bit neutered -- I'd rather have more chances to swing and miss, Hayward's gonna take up the lions share of the salary, there won't be any assets returned for him, and he'll be the big signing in 2 summers, some massive 4 year deal, which will last til he's months away from turning 31.. He'll end up the highest paid player in Jazz history
I'm not trying to suggust moving Hayward for anything less, there's a method to this madness though, they could look at him as an asset, cash out (for picks) then replace him(With Harrison Barnes, who's 2 years younger)..
He's not irreplaceable, the Jazz are 500:1 to win the chip.
With Hayward here that whole process will be a bit neutered -- I'd rather have more chances to swing and miss, Hayward's gonna take up the lions share of the salary, there won't be any assets returned for him, and he'll be the big signing in 2 summers, some massive 4 year deal, which will last til he's months away from turning 31.. He'll end up the highest paid player in Jazz history
I'm not trying to suggust moving Hayward for anything less, there's a method to this madness though, they could look at him as an asset, cash out (for picks) then replace him(With Harrison Barnes, who's 2 years younger)..
He's not irreplaceable, the Jazz are 500:1 to win the chip.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
When I started posting here I said my theory is the draftee's are getting better/more talented at a younger age, every year, and I stand by that. It's totally true, and a result of good old fashioned competition -- This theory is only rejected by older folks hopped up on nostalgia..
If you think Hayward is a better prospect than some of the players coming thru the pipelines, so be it. I don't. "
I also question just where he stacks up in the hierarchy of wings in the West, Kahwi Leonard certainly disrupts his flow/game with relative ease... The Warriors found Dragoon on the scrap heap in the 2nd round, and they value him probably just how the Jazz value Hayward.. Is paying Hayward an enormous chunk of the cap really gonna help them overtake GS?? I say no.
I've also been saying for quite some time that I believe that Brandon Ingram in this draft is a better prospect than Hayward, most will agree Ben Simmons is a better prospect than Hayward too.
In 2017 Josh Jackson projects to be a way better prospect than Hayward, I say - Why settle for that while mired in 500:1 to win the Chip odds, hate on my style all you want, I'm just scanning the radars for upgrades -- Which is something y'all will be wishing the Jazz would've done, if they take an easy way out, and it doesn't yield explosive results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xotjmuCfBPk
In 2018 Jarred Vanderbilt projects to be a better player than Hayward, John Petty's probably a better prospect too, and certainly Michael Porter Jr is..
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
He is. And I don't intend to minimize his impact upon games. It's actually quite impressive that he has added the strength and bulk necessary to plow through NBA defenses. But ultimately, I think it'll wear him out.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
I should say that I don't really care if players want to be in Utah. I am far more concerned with chemistry, BBIQ, and fiscal viability. Winning solves most of those other issues, and I think we have a great coach who will develop any players we get.
I think the Jazz will go over the cap if it means fielding a contender. But the mix of players has to be right for that to happen. Right now, I think the Jazz are economically imbalanced towards the frontcourt and the wing. We need a solid point guard if we are to compete with a league that is loaded with quality play at that position, and our payroll projects to be dominated by Hayward, Gobert, and Favors.
Exum's length and first step bode well for our future, but we don't really know what we have in him. To improve the play at that spot, we need more talent at that position. Additionally, if we lost one of our wings to a trade, Exum could capably step into the 2 spot.
With Hood's emergence as a not-quite-as-good (yet) complement to Hayward, I think we are encountering some redundancy on the wing. It will be interesting to see how they play together the rest of the way. But I don't think Hayward's trade value will ever be higher.
I think the Jazz will go over the cap if it means fielding a contender. But the mix of players has to be right for that to happen. Right now, I think the Jazz are economically imbalanced towards the frontcourt and the wing. We need a solid point guard if we are to compete with a league that is loaded with quality play at that position, and our payroll projects to be dominated by Hayward, Gobert, and Favors.
Exum's length and first step bode well for our future, but we don't really know what we have in him. To improve the play at that spot, we need more talent at that position. Additionally, if we lost one of our wings to a trade, Exum could capably step into the 2 spot.
With Hood's emergence as a not-quite-as-good (yet) complement to Hayward, I think we are encountering some redundancy on the wing. It will be interesting to see how they play together the rest of the way. But I don't think Hayward's trade value will ever be higher.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
I hope you're right. I think the front office loves him, and there is a very tough quality to his game. If the Jazz do invest in him, it will be important for him to have enough energy and health to perform in the post-season.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Hayward's game will age nicely regardless of whether the jazz invest in him beyond this contract. Someone can support trading him and still say his game is nice and will likely remain nice. It's nuts how many people want to complicate the two issues by making them a strange, paranoid-sounding amalgam.
I'd probably trade Hayward if I could bring back a top-10 pick in 2017 + and additional first rounder (and this would all have to be part of a plan of using the freed up cash to get another very good player on the team). Something like that. --But Hayward would still have a good game that will probably age well.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
This, and all that PG_AB has said. You guys must hate Hayward and/or have personal insecurities thou. I'm personally considering whether if I should throw myself over a bridge if he ever walked for nothing.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
There is nothing paranoid about thinking through his usage and style of play. He was completely spent at the end of last season, and he is averaging 35.5 minutes this season. For January he averaged 36.2.
We will have to see if his style of play + that kind of mileage will age as well as you say. I'm not as confident about that as you appear to be.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Has anybody suggested that his current style of play should continue, unaltered, into his 30s? The dude is still probably pre-prime and has a track record for being durable. So, yeah, it sounds a bit paranoid.
Hayward is ****ing lucky to have landed in a franchise that has been configured in such a way that he's been able to grab the reins and develop all these facets to his game. The way he's pushing his physical limits is GOOOOOD. Will he be able to do this forever? No. But that should go without saying.
Losing Hayward would make our team a lot worse. Just Hood alone isn't enough. Maybe a couple years Hood will be good enough to take over for Hay.
Unless we replace Hayward's talent with another playmaker then this would be a mistake right now.
Unless we replace Hayward's talent with another playmaker then this would be a mistake right now.
jope
Well-Known Member
we're talking about the guy that has played in 93% (409/440) of games in his 6 Year Career Right?
Mission Accomplished
Well-Known Member
Hood isn't alone we already have a great team surrounding Hood. We wouldn't miss a beat without Hayward.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Yes, let's dump Hayward because Ben Simmons, Ingram and others "project" better, and because there's such a great chance we'll be able to land all of them.
It's not drinking the Hayward 'lemonade' to say that he's a very good player, one of the best wings in the league. He may not be a #1, but just which #1 are we going to be able to flip him for? Curry? Durrant? LeBron? Beside these guys, who else out there is the player who will take us to the Finals, and just how do we go about getting him?
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
I'm certainly not arguing that we should let him walk for nothing. I just question whether he is the piece to build around.
Favors game appears to be much more critical to winning than Hayward's. If Hood projects to produce similar #s to Hayward in only his second year, then I think one of them becomes a luxury. Who knows if the Jazz are interested in paying for both on top of what Favors and Gobert will clearly command.
Dante's extension comes up at the same time as Rodney's. Choosing between them might be painful if both improve next year. Hayward's extension may force the Jazz into that scenario.
Favors game appears to be much more critical to winning than Hayward's. If Hood projects to produce similar #s to Hayward in only his second year, then I think one of them becomes a luxury. Who knows if the Jazz are interested in paying for both on top of what Favors and Gobert will clearly command.
Dante's extension comes up at the same time as Rodney's. Choosing between them might be painful if both improve next year. Hayward's extension may force the Jazz into that scenario.
What I hate about this constant desire to "upgrade" with prospects who haven't played a minute of NBA basketball is that it continues to push the timeline of a competitive Utah Jazz team back a year here, a couple years there. At that point what we're talking about is a full on rebuild before we've finished rebuilding from 5 years ago.
I want to watch a competitive Utah Jazz team play basketball. That's the kind of fan I am, as crazy as that is for so many people here. I want to grab a beer, turn on a Jazz game and enjoy what I see. I'm not content with fantasies about all the titles the Jazz could/would win if only some highschool kid gets drafted two years from now. That does nothing for what I'm want out of the Utah Jazz, which is to be able to watch an entertaining basketball game from time to time.
I want to watch a competitive Utah Jazz team play basketball. That's the kind of fan I am, as crazy as that is for so many people here. I want to grab a beer, turn on a Jazz game and enjoy what I see. I'm not content with fantasies about all the titles the Jazz could/would win if only some highschool kid gets drafted two years from now. That does nothing for what I'm want out of the Utah Jazz, which is to be able to watch an entertaining basketball game from time to time.