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Its Time to Tank

Wow, people are practically giddy with the delicious prospect of throwing it all away and having three or four consecutive 20 win seasons.

Huh? We are already almost at 20 wins and its not even close to the all star break lol


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Screw the tank.
There is no formula.
There is just a promise of "maybe".
More specifically, "maybe in the future we can draft the right guys and build a winning team around them".

Top 10 guys are often not who we think they are coming from the draft. Evidenced by the fact that most of the time we draft others before them. And since it seems like a fairly accepted fact that you must have a top 10 guy to truely compete, well... how to exactly draft him?

Lets look at best players in the league right now (in no particular order but hopefully covering all that appear on anyones top 10):
Luka - 3rd (important notice, despite being top 3 the two guys drafted before him are total scrubs, and Hawks were willing to downgrade away from Luka)
Tatum - 3rd (drafed behind 2 guys who havent made an impact yet, and maybe never will due to health reasons)
Giannis - 15th
Steph - 7th
Jokic - 41st
Durant - 2nd (and the guy drafted ahead of him was the more "surefire" guy in Greg Oden... you see KD needed a lot of work "in the weight room" before he could become legit in the NBA)
AD - 1st and rightfully so.. but even though he is back to top 10 now, he hasn't been consistently up there. Furthermore, the team that drafted him has 0 championships and another team that paid the ransom reaped the benefits.
Embiid - 3rd (as a talent he was the best but health concerns dropped him to 3rd)
Booker - 13th
DM - 13th
Ja - 2nd
Zion - 1st
SGA - 11th

Shouldnt there be more #1s in that list than Zion and AD? Also count how many chips guys drafted top 3 won for the teams that drafted them? Hint: 0.
Get this: there are no top 3 picks from past 15 years who won a chip for the team that drafted them as their best player. Kyrie won one with Lebron, but playing the second fiddle. Tatum might break the trend. Might.

Oh and btw, that is 15+ years of drafts there. So 38 total top 3 picks that are not on that list which still has 5 guys picked outside of top 10 (40%). To be fair, some of those 38 top 3 picks that are not on that list were up there for a moment before disappearing... but vast majority have turned good to decent or just slipped to total irrelevance after doing next to nothing.

Lets look at 2015 just because these guys are in their absolute prime right now... yet some of them are out of jobs. Booker was #13, but these guys where valued better than him. Which of those has ever even been mentioned as a top player? No one. Potential top 10? KAT only. But we now know he isnt.

11Karl-Anthony Towns*~C
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Dominican Republic[n 2]
Minnesota TimberwolvesKentucky (Fr.)
12D'Angelo Russell+PG
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United States
Los Angeles LakersOhio State (Fr.)
13Jahlil OkaforC
23px-Flag_of_Nigeria.svg.png
Nigeria
Philadelphia 76ersDuke (Fr.)
14Kristaps Porziņģis+PF/C
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Latvia
New York KnicksBaloncesto Sevilla (Spain)
15Mario HezonjaSG/SF
23px-Flag_of_Croatia.svg.png
Croatia
Orlando MagicFC Barcelona (Spain)
16Willie Cauley-SteinPF
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United States
Sacramento KingsKentucky (Jr.)
17Emmanuel MudiayPG
20px-Flag_of_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo.svg.png
DR Congo[n 3]
Denver NuggetsGuangdong Southern Tigers
18Stanley JohnsonSF
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United States
Detroit PistonsArizona (Fr.)
19Frank KaminskyPF
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States
Charlotte HornetsWisconsin (Sr.)
110Justise WinslowSF
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United States
Miami HeatDuke (Fr.)
111Myles TurnerC
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States
Indiana PacersTexas (Fr.)
112Trey LylesPF
23px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.png
Canada
Utah JazzKentucky (Fr.)

There is an average of 2 guys per draft who at some point during their career get elevated to the elitest tier of players. Some drafts there can be as many as 6 or 7, other drafts you struggle to find a single one. And we just suck at telling who those guys are before they are drafted and sometimes even after seeing them play for a few years.

Its all smoke and mirrors. Picking 1st or 7th or 25th is not what eventually sets teams apart. Winning chips these days is much more about player development, coaching and team building (trades included). Only thing high pick gives you is a better chance for a better embryo to try and develop. But some of the even most hyped ones are just tainted, hopeless and destined to be busts regardless of where they land.

Lol at saying trae young and Ayton are scrubs.


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Has anything come out on extension talks for Kuzma? If he goes to free agency I would see him getting $20-25M/yr from someone given his skillset though I don't know what cap situations are like right now.

Given past comments about Orlando and such, I don't see him agreeing to commit to Utah long-term, even if he played college here
 
I assume you think Ayton is a legit #1 talent?
Not at all, I was never interested in getting involved in a trade for him and think he is a disappointment for a 1st overall pick.

Still a good player and quality starter, so depends on how you define "scrub".
 
Not at all, I was never interested in getting involved in a trade for him and think he is a disappointment for a 1st overall pick.

Still a good player and quality starter, so depends on how you define "scrub".
He's only really a disappointment because of Luka. He's probably the 2nd best player of that draft. He could also put up way better stats if he was on a team that wanted to run more offense through him.
 
He's only really a disappointment because of Luka. He's probably the 2nd best player of that draft. He could also put up way better stats if he was on a team that wanted to run more offense through him.
Perhaps, I think I may consider too many 1st overall picks to be disappointments given that you are often hoping for some transformational piece. But the Suns made the finals in like his 2nd season after a drought so disappointment is probably unfair.

No way Ayton is above SGA. Trae is a nightmare to build a team around imo, but hard to say he isn't the 2nd/3rd best player in that draft unless you are really weighting his early season struggles. I would take JJJ as well given his defense and spacing, but his injuries are a concern. And he is much more of a role player than a 1st/2nd option player, but I am really high on Mikal Bridges if I were a GM.
 
Perhaps, I think I may consider too many 1st overall picks to be disappointments given that you are often hoping for some transformational piece. But the Suns made the finals in like his 2nd season after a drought so disappointment is probably unfair.

No way Ayton is above SGA. Trae is a nightmare to build a team around imo, but hard to say he isn't the 2nd/3rd best player in that draft unless you are really weighting his early season struggles. I would take JJJ as well given his defense and spacing, but his injuries are a concern. And he is much more of a role player than a 1st/2nd option player, but I am really high on Mikal Bridges if I were a GM.
Well, I forgot SGA was in that draft, so yeah, you probably put SGA ahead of him. So 3rd best. Id rather have Ayton than Trae.
 
look at what ayton did to the first place team in the west over the weekend - two games. he's a damn good player. would have been a 10-15 time all-star and ultimate HoFer in the 80s and 90s.
 
Listened to Locked on Jazz today:

Locke said Hardy said, without being prompted "We are not gifting minutes".
Only to Rudy Gay... but rooks must earn it. I have a lot of thoughts about it. The hardcore old skool guy that thinks everything must be earned is cool and all, but giving a developing player 10-15 minutes instead of a vet when the difference between the guys is not massive will yield serious development dividends.

Don't want to just give them as many minutes and opportunities as they would want just because... but there is a balance here.

The only guy in the rotation that should not be is Rudy Gay... and once the injured guys are back I am not sure he will be. Fontecchio has earned some minutes... NAW has likely earned any minutes that would have gone to THT. I'd be cool throwing THT out there in some of the spots you might put Gay out there.

But if we are taking a hard line that minutes are earned then you can't also play Gay.
 
i would argue he has gifted minutes at certain points of the season to certain players. also, it can be hard to earn minutes when you don't get minutes - speaking in general here - not about any one or two players. so yeah, that sounds good. it sounds hard-nosed. it's the type of comment we want to hear from our coach. it's a great sound bite, but when you drill down, at least to a minor extent, it rings a tad hollow.
 
Not at all, I was never interested in getting involved in a trade for him and think he is a disappointment for a 1st overall pick.

Still a good player and quality starter, so depends on how you define "scrub".
Fair enough, albeit Suns fans seem to dislike him more than that. May just be voice of disappointment though..

Scrub in relation to when he was picked then.
 
Only to Rudy Gay... but rooks must earn it. I have a lot of thoughts about it. The hardcore old skool guy that thinks everything must be earned is cool and all, but giving a developing player 10-15 minutes instead of a vet when the difference between the guys is not massive will yield serious development dividends.

Don't want to just give them as many minutes and opportunities as they would want just because... but there is a balance here.

The only guy in the rotation that should not be is Rudy Gay... and once the injured guys are back I am not sure he will be. Fontecchio has earned some minutes... NAW has likely earned any minutes that would have gone to THT. I'd be cool throwing THT out there in some of the spots you might put Gay out there.

But if we are taking a hard line that minutes are earned then you can't also play Gay.
I mean, Rudy Gay is hardly playing and it's tough to argue too much against him when the team has played very well with him on the court even if his individual stats are bad.
 
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