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Game Thread Jan 03, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs Kings

Added to Calendar: 01-03-23

Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah, but his high point totals are not turning into wins. That's not ideal (to me - I understand that tankers are loving all this). Not saying it's his fault, but it is what it is. The debate on "empty stats" is ancient in the NBA. If you put up big numbers but the team keeps losing, is it because your teammates are not pulling their weight or because there's something lacking in your game? Are you making them better?

Fantastic perimeter shooting has had a large part in making Lauri pretty much the most efficient scorer in the NBA this season. And it's also kept the Jazz competitive, since his gravity improves the spacing a ton. He doesn't even really have to do anything to keep a defender glued to him.

I think this losing streak alone already killed his AS game chances, and putting up a ton of bricks from the arc will just Finnish the job (see what I did there?)
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First off he isnt bricking those shots. Literally everyone in this team has had worse slumps this year than Lauri is on right now.

Secondly, name a Jazz player not named Lauri who would be a starter in any of the top 6 teams in the West (also name the starter youd replace).

We dont have the pieces. Especially defensively. All we have is draft picks. Our 3rd best player is a rookie who was the 22nd overall pick.
 
HermanG said:
First off he isnt bricking those shots. Literally everyone in this team has had worse slumps this year than Lauri is on right now.

Secondly, name a Jazz player not named Lauri who would be a starter in any of the top 6 teams in the West (also name the starter youd replace).

We dont have the pieces. Especially defensively. All we have is draft picks. Our 3rd best player is a rookie who was the 22nd overall pick.
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Yeah, Lauri is very good.

But he's still bricking those 3's.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Lol we were 0.1 of a second away from the best game winner of the season from Lauri. I don’t think there will ever be a better tank loss than this.
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Btw, I saw that our own clock operator shorted us by .2 seconds for that last shot. Fox shot went through the hoop with .6 seconds left on the clock but the clock operator stopped the clock with .4 left. That is world class tanking lol.
 
One aspect where people go wrong a lot of times is concluding the certain amount misses from individual counts as "we had won if he made few more."
The game flow matters. One made three pointer is under 3% from the total points combined in the game. If someone misses a lot inside the game then it is better if the misses are scattered and the said individual can go for another options to help the game flow not getting out of hand - if his outside shot is not on. Lauri has done that in late games where his thee hasn't been on. if he made two more threes inside that game of course it gave us a few percents better chance to win. Or if he missed lot of threes in short time or in the clutch that for sure might have killed chances as the opponent might gone for a run or sealed the game bc of it.

Of course he needs to make threes with a good clip but singling out few games with that and whining about it when he goes for around 30 pts with solid TS% is just wild. 28pts with 15 shots is good output. The game was lost on the normal issues: team defense is not good enough. Games lately not turning into wins has not been about how good or bad Lauri shoots from three. That has been affecting like few percents at most. If the misses were piled on in bad stretches inside the game the effect would be much higher and people might have a reason singling it out. Now there really is not.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Another awful game. I don't care about moral victories. We suck now. Random thoughts:

- The FT line has become Lauri's second home of late, but I don't like some of the recent trends in his game or how we're incapable of responding when teams double him. The first thing that's becoming obvious is that his torrid 3pt shooting is over for now. He's still been able to make some shots, but Lauri's known to be a streaky guy in the past and right now his shot is way off. Even his release looks different than it did a month ago. He struggled to start the season as well, but back then our ball movement was on another level and Markkanen was able to feast off cuts and low post mismatches.

Another worrying issue is that every team has scouted his curls to the middle by now. Everyone's anticipating it, so Lauri's meeting a wall of defenders every time he receives the ball, and teams are taking away his passing lanes to the corner or the perimeter. That's easy to do because Markkanen constantly uses a very predictable route on those curls - he doesn't like to stop, pivot, do a crossover or any of that. He's also angling his curls away from the basket too often. In short, Lauri is getting the ball in spots where he doesn't have any advantage, and that's something of a killer for him. He's not a guy who can create good shots out of thin air when he gets the rock against a set defense. This is something he just has to get better at if he wants to be a star.

- Let's end the charade - Mike Conley can't play NBA defense anymore. It's becoming embarrassing. Fox went past him all game like he wasn't there. You can't beat father time, but Mike doesn't really even put in any effort at this stage. He knows he can't stop anyone so he's stopped trying. Kessler and the other bigs have a steady stream of dynamic scoring guards coming at them in 2-on-1 situations, and that's just an automatic bucket in the NBA. I think we literally have the worst backcourt defense in the League - Conley, Clarkson, Sexton and Beasley all suck and Agbaji won't be helping. His awareness is below average and the NBA game is moving way too fast for him.

- Kessler has to start developing a low post go-to move, pronto. He can't be a zero in half court offense. It's just way too big of a burden for the guys who can actually score some.

- Hardy is tanking.
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Good post. Especially the part about conleys defense.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Agbaji sucks. I'm sorry. No wonder he's gonna get PT now that we're actually tanking.
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So what if he sucks? So does most of the team. And losses are wins this season. Should have been playing from day one. Should have been tanking from day one as well. Btw he hasn't played enough to declare anything definitively about him.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Agbaji sucks. I'm sorry. No wonder he's gonna get PT now that we're actually tanking.
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fish is right. should have been playing from day 1. should have been tanking from day one. the fast start simply slowed and hurt the tank that should have been happening all along. the fast start was fool's gold and ultimately detrimental to what this team needs to accomplish over the next few years. but hey, we got to cheer some wins in november! yay!
 
I love how some of you are experts on Ochai after playing almost no minutes and most of the minutes he has received are just garbage time. At this point we have no clue what kind of player Ochai is whether it is good or bad. Unfortunately I don't actually believe that Hardy will give him any kind of meaningful minutes to figure out what he is. It is up to Ainge to force his hand and trade guys.
 
sip said:
I love how some of you are experts on Ochai after playing almost no minutes and most of the minutes he has received are just garbage time. At this point we have no clue what kind of player Ochai is whether it is good or bad. Unfortunately I don't actually believe that Hardy will give him any kind of meaningful minutes to figure out what he is. It is up to Ainge to force his hand and trade guys.
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The lip service at least is encouraging... as it leans towards "we need to give some development minutes" which is tank language.

The tank is coming.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah, but his high point totals are not turning into wins. That's not ideal (to me - I understand that tankers are loving all this). Not saying it's his fault, but it is what it is. The debate on "empty stats" is ancient in the NBA. If you put up big numbers but the team keeps losing, is it because your teammates are not pulling their weight or because there's something lacking in your game? Are you making them better?

Fantastic perimeter shooting has had a large part in making Lauri pretty much the most efficient scorer in the NBA this season. And it's also kept the Jazz competitive, since his gravity improves the spacing a ton. He doesn't even really have to do anything to keep a defender glued to him.

I think this losing streak alone already killed his AS game chances, and putting up a ton of bricks from the arc will just Finnish the job (see what I did there?)
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Nah I think Lauri is already a shoe in for the ASG being played in SLC. Personally I think the ASG itself is a joke especially with the Team Lebron BS but it's still a nice honor for him. Getting to the FT line 15 times like he did last night is still an elite skill even though his 3 pt shooting has tailed off. Many of the perennial all stars (Kawhi, AD) have also been injured most of the season too.

My concern is the rest of the team. At this point I'd be fine if Ainge just blew it up and traded almost everyone else if it meant taking a step forward next season. The perimeter defense is awful. The defense under the basket is awful. They lack athleticism and playmaking. KO has totally fallen off. His 3 pt % from earlier in the year looks like a mirage not to mention he's a horrible defender. I do like Vando but not sure he's a fit here. He can get out and defend the perimeter but he is just way too small to defend real bigs such as Sabonis. Taking one 3 pt attempt a game certainly isn't pulling any opposing defenders out to the perimeter. He'd be real nice next to an offensive 5 such as Ayton which is probably why PHX has shown so much interest. Kessler can be a difference maker with his shot blocking but he can't stay on the floor due to fouls(not totally his fault) and his lack of a go to move offensively. Right now all he has is dunks and putbacks in his offensive bag. He's a future rotation player but agree he needs to work on developing a go to offensive move asap. Jazz need to have a big man coach glued to him all summer.

The backcourt is a mess defensively but think some of it can be cured if they can bring in a big athletic wing. (Anunoby or Thompson twins anybody?). Conley is good for about 20 minutes a night to direct the team but he can barely defend a traffic cone. I know JC is a fan favorite, almost like a team mascot at this point, but I'm not paying him $20-25 mil per year starting SG money to play one end of the court especially when you add in the fact he's good for about 2-3 bad shots and 2 bad turnovers every game. Beasley is just way too hot and cold with his shooting. One night can barely miss a 3 but the next 2 nights he goes 2 for 9. Overall it looks ok in the season stats but he really hurts them on those bad shooting nights especially while not adding much else on the court in terms of defense or playmaking. NAW plays well for a few games and then just disappears. Sexton is the one guy who I think can be a long term rotation player with his burst and efficient scoring but 6th man/spot starter might be the optimum spot in the rotation for him.

The bench big wing role is just a mess with old man Gay and Fontecchio who is another that can't defend his position. Agbaji obviously doesn't have their size but I'd at least throw him out there a few minutes a game as he couldn't be any worse.
 
Agent#00 said:
We are 0-5 when THT goes DNP

There I said it.
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I'm sure THT will be back in the rotation at some point especially if NAW keeps fading. Seems like they are using either NAW or THT as another playmaker off the bench depending on which one is playing better at the moment. Hopefully someone will whisper in his ear to stop bailing out opposing defenses by taking those stepback 3's early in the shotclock though. I think that's a big reason Hardy keeps benching him. Having a guy shooting 23% on 3s taking those types of shots is a momentum killer especially when his main job on offense should be to move the ball.
 
sip said:
I love how some of you are experts on Ochai after playing almost no minutes and most of the minutes he has received are just garbage time. At this point we have no clue what kind of player Ochai is whether it is good or bad. Unfortunately I don't actually believe that Hardy will give him any kind of meaningful minutes to figure out what he is. It is up to Ainge to force his hand and trade guys.
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Ochai played four years of college ball but looks like he didn't play any. Seriously, if you are this lost after a full NCAA career, I don't think you're an NBA player. That's just the way it is.

He'll be 23 in a few months. IMO Ochai was a terrible whiff by the Cavs, which also explains why they had absolutely no problem showing him the door.
 
sip said:
I love how some of you are experts on Ochai after playing almost no minutes and most of the minutes he has received are just garbage time. At this point we have no clue what kind of player Ochai is whether it is good or bad. Unfortunately I don't actually believe that Hardy will give him any kind of meaningful minutes to figure out what he is. It is up to Ainge to force his hand and trade guys.
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I'm no expert but at this point we are tending straight down. It's time to get the younger guys minutes to assess their future.
 
I'm sure THT will get burn at some point. He actually played great in the Denver game, but he just trying way too hard to prove he can actually shoot when he should be treating his 3pt shot like he's Royce O'Neale.
 
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