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Game Thread Jan 03, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs Kings

Added to Calendar: 01-03-23

Tremendous Upside said:
Ochai played four years of college ball but looks like he didn't play any. Seriously, if you are this lost after a full NCAA career, I don't think you're an NBA player. That's just the way it is.

He'll be 23 in a few months. IMO Ochai was a terrible whiff by the Cavs, which also explains why they had absolutely no problem showing him the door.
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you keep saying this, but what's your point as it relates to his playing time with the jazz? like are you advocating that he plays 40 minutes a game? 25?
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Ochai played four years of college ball but looks like he didn't play any. Seriously, if you are this lost after a full NCAA career, I don't think you're an NBA player. That's just the way it is.

He'll be 23 in a few months. IMO Ochai was a terrible whiff by the Cavs, which also explains why they had absolutely no problem showing him the door.
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He needs to study Royce O'Neale in Brooklyn.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Ochai played four years of college ball but looks like he didn't play any. Seriously, if you are this lost after a full NCAA career, I don't think you're an NBA player. That's just the way it is.

He'll be 23 in a few months. IMO Ochai was a terrible whiff by the Cavs, which also explains why they had absolutely no problem showing him the door.
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I'll agree he apparently didn't look great in summer league but I wasn't focusing on the Cavs at that point. His G league stats haven't been eye popping either.

Locke and some of the other team apologists say he was supposedly a "slow starter" at Kansas too.

At this point I'm not expecting huge things but he has to give them more energy than Gay, right? That's not a high bar. Denver has gotten some decent bench play/energy from the other Kansas kid Braun that got picked after Agbaji in the last draft. It's not like the Jazz have a ton of options.
 
SteakNEggs said:
I'm no expert but at this point we are tending straight down. It's time to get the younger guys minutes to assess their future.
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Not that I'm against giving minutes to the, umm, "youngins" instead of Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure what (or who) people expect to see. We don't exactly have a stash of tantalizing young talent just waiting to be let loose.

Nothing I've seen from Ochai so far makes me think he's anything more than a G League player. And he seems to be the one most people are expecting to break out.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Not that I'm against giving minutes to the, umm, "youngins" instead of Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure what (or who) people expect to see. We don't exactly have a stash of tantalizing young talent just waiting to be let loose.

Nothing I've seen from Ochai so far makes me think he's anything more than a G League player. And he seems to be the one most people are expecting to break out.
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I have noticed that having muscly arms and cool sounding name leads to this kind of thinking in lot of fanbases.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Not that I'm against giving minutes to the, umm, "youngins" instead of Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure what (or who) people expect to see. We don't exactly have a stash of tantalizing young talent just waiting to be let loose.

Nothing I've seen from Ochai so far makes me think he's anything more than a G League player. And he seems to be the one most people are expecting to break out.
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Not I, but at his draft position I think you have to at least see. But... I agree that he hasn't shown much and there's probably a reason he doesn't get minutes.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Not that I'm against giving minutes to the, umm, "youngins" instead of Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure what (or who) people expect to see. We don't exactly have a stash of tantalizing young talent just waiting to be let loose.

Nothing I've seen from Ochai so far makes me think he's anything more than a G League player. And he seems to be the one most people are expecting to break out.
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and again, even if you're right, who gives a ****?
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Not that I'm against giving minutes to the, umm, "youngins" instead of Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure what (or who) people expect to see. We don't exactly have a stash of tantalizing young talent just waiting to be let loose.

Nothing I've seen from Ochai so far makes me think he's anything more than a G League player. And he seems to be the one most people are expecting to break out.
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Well i mean you said it right in your post. Play ochai rudy gays minutes. Boom, done.
 
fishonjazz said:
Well i mean you said it right in your post. Play ochai rudy gays minutes. Boom, done.
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Yeah, I would be fine with that. No problem.

It's just that there isn't gonna be some sudden youth movement. THT just turned 22, but he's a 4-year NBA vet. I'm not against playing him, but do we really need to give him minutes to "see what we have"? Everyone knows who and what he is. Sure he can and probably will develop, but his Jazz fate won't hinge on his performance in the rest of the games this season. In fact, it's probably been decided already.

Fontecchio isn't young, at 27 he's older than Markkanen. Realistically, he has 4 or 5 NBA years left, and that's if things go extremely well for him. He might also be out of the league after his current deal. Do we need to "evaluate" him?

Kessler is playing anyway, no real change there.

As for the pu pu platter of two way guys and G League heroes... no thanks. Let's not go down that road, even for tanking purposes.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah, I would be fine with that. No problem.

It's just that there isn't gonna be some sudden youth movement. THT just turned 22, but he's a 4-year NBA vet. I'm not against playing him, but do we really need to give him minutes to "see what we have"? Everyone knows who and what he is. Sure he can and probably will develop, but his Jazz fate won't hinge on his performance in the rest of the games this season. In fact, it's probably been decided already.

Fontecchio isn't young, at 27 he's older than Markkanen. Realistically, he has 4 or 5 NBA years left, and that's if things go extremely well for him. He might also be out of the league after his current deal. Do we need to "evaluate" him?

Kessler is playing anyway, no real change there.

As for the pu pu platter of two way guys and G League heroes... no thanks. Let's not go down that road, even for tanking purposes.
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There are quite a few first round draft picks playing in the GLeague now and available. Could they improve the current roster? If people are concerned about salary cap waive the two way guys and sign them to two way contracts as they don't count against the cap.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah, I would be fine with that. No problem.

It's just that there isn't gonna be some sudden youth movement. THT just turned 22, but he's a 4-year NBA vet. I'm not against playing him, but do we really need to give him minutes to "see what we have"? Everyone knows who and what he is. Sure he can and probably will develop, but his Jazz fate won't hinge on his performance in the rest of the games this season. In fact, it's probably been decided already.

Fontecchio isn't young, at 27 he's older than Markkanen. Realistically, he has 4 or 5 NBA years left, and that's if things go extremely well for him. He might also be out of the league after his current deal. Do we need to "evaluate" him?

Kessler is playing anyway, no real change there.

As for the pu pu platter of two way guys and G League heroes... no thanks. Let's not go down that road, even for tanking purposes.
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Basically its really simple what most of us want and think should happen. Play Gay zero minutes. Play conley and KO way less minutes than they are. Spread the minutes that those 3 lose to the other players (NAW, Sexton, Ochai, simone, kessler, etc) Seems like that should have been the plan from game 1. Yet here we are way far into the season and gay, conley, and KO are all still playing to much and others not enough.
 
This game had so many bad calls and even bad jump ball tosses. It was awful to watch, and I am rooting for the Jazz to lose this year.

To add insult to injury, the NBA admitted that there should not have been a jump ball during the Lauri/Keegan play, but somehow decided that the Kings were the disadvantaged party even though the Jazz would have had the ball:

L2M Report

official.nba.com official.nba.com

And of course no mention that the Jazz should have had more time on the clock.
 
fishonjazz said:
Basically its really simple what most of us want and think should happen. Play Gay zero minutes. Play conley and KO way less minutes than they are. Spread the minutes that those 3 lose to the other players (NAW, Sexton, Ochai, simone, kessler, etc) Seems like that should have been the plan from game 1. Yet here we are way far into the season and gay, conley, and KO are all still playing to much and others not enough.
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This was always going to be a throwaway season. Why the young guys aren't getting tons of burn baffles me. If I never say Rudy Gay play again it would be too soon. His odds of making a shot are lower than me catching a trout using a rod with no string.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah, I would be fine with that. No problem.

It's just that there isn't gonna be some sudden youth movement. THT just turned 22, but he's a 4-year NBA vet. I'm not against playing him, but do we really need to give him minutes to "see what we have"? Everyone knows who and what he is. Sure he can and probably will develop, but his Jazz fate won't hinge on his performance in the rest of the games this season. In fact, it's probably been decided already.

Fontecchio isn't young, at 27 he's older than Markkanen. Realistically, he has 4 or 5 NBA years left, and that's if things go extremely well for him. He might also be out of the league after his current deal. Do we need to "evaluate" him?

Kessler is playing anyway, no real change there.

As for the pu pu platter of two way guys and G League heroes... no thanks. Let's not go down that road, even for tanking purposes.
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I see no reason not to play Fontecchio. He helps the tank and gets some experience and might become something. There have been other Euros come late into the league who were able to have an impact. Could be a solid bench piece for our championship run in a few years when we land 2 top-10 picks this year.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
False. There's zero evidence of that.



Who are the "young guys"?

As has been said time and time again, we were much too good from the start to just tank outright.
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the start was fool's gold as is becoming more and more apparent by the day - though some of us were smart enough to know that even as it was happening.

the "young guys" are ochai, bolmaro, fontecchio (older, but still just a rookie) and kessler.
 
Hardy has to look his players in the face at the end of the day. If Ochai/Simone are actively making the team worse, how do you look Lauri/Conley/Clarkson in the face and act like a serious coach?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hardy has to look his players in the face at the end of the day. If Ochai/Simone are actively making the team worse, how do you look Lauri/Conley/Clarkson in the face and act like a serious coach?
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You look at them the same way you do after playing rudy gay game after game.
 
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