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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

David Stern said:
I think it’s lottery protected through ’26, then we give them nothing
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Yea, so it would require 3 straight years of hard tanking after the initial tank year. If we are still in the bottom 8 of the NBA by 2026 then we have failed miserably.

It's top 10 protected in 24 and 25, and top 8 in 26.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yea, so it would require 3 straight years of hard tanking after the initial tank year. If we are still in the bottom 8 of the NBA by 2026 then we have failed miserably.

It's top 10 protected in 24 and 25, and top 8 in 26.
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On the flip side if the pick conveys to OKC any of those years we are in a good spot.
 
Elizah Huge said:
On the flip side if the pick conveys to OKC any of those years we are in a good spot.
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Assuming we've already made the Donovan trade, yeah there's a fine point here. I would still say that still picking in '24 and legitimately/organically being good enough to convey in '25 is ideal.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Assuming we've already made the Donovan trade, yeah there's a fine point here. I would still say that still picking in '24 and legitimately/organically being good enough to convey in '25 is ideal.
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Wemby/Scoot + RJ being good enough for it to convey in 2024 isn’t bad either I would say.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I think TJ was just saying they aren't going to try and be bad forever. I think there are a million shades of what that is supposed to mean, so you can interpret it how you will. The reality is that it will take all star level talent to be competitive again. It will take awhile to draft and develop those stars.
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Well said. No one wants it to take very long but unloading two all-stars does not a fast recovery process unless you get some great young talent in return.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Pretty much. Grab RJ and get a top pick in 2023 maybe two lottery picks because we will likely have 4-5 1st rounders we can do something with. Then likely be in the lottery again in 2024 then we start flirting with the playoffs again in 2025. That could be the plan at least.
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If we get RJ I hope he is as good as you think he is.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Also wouldnt be surprised if the Jazz go out next off-season and try to overpay for someone like a Kyle Kuzma possibly.

I think a lot of teams might try to preserve cap-space for the massive '24 free agency class, so Utah could possibly sign some guys in '23. Guys like D'Angelo Russell, Andrew Wiggin, Kyle Kuzma, Jerami Grant, Myles Turner, Gary Trent Jr, Josh Hart, Dillon Brooks, Jakob Poetl will be UFA's next year. Those are all starter level players who are in their mid to late 20's and arent really max worthy, but are better than the average starter, so they will have interesting salary figures and Utah can sweep in and overpay a bit compared to other teams and get some solid guys then use their trade pieces to get the next available star.
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With FA you take your shots when you can. So if we can land a guy in 2023 then great... but 2024 will be a monster class (depending on extensions). I think that is the year to target after collecting 2 of our own high picks and seeing what the other 2023 picks have yielded.
 
Elizah Huge said:
He will be in most improved player conversations next year after averaging 23+ PPG for us.
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I will say that the Knicks might be the most garbage developmental program and environment in the NBA. I do wonder if our reemergent emphasis here might help him pop in some important ways.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
With FA you take your shots when you can. So if we can land a guy in 2023 then great... but 2024 will be a monster class (depending on extensions). I think that is the year to target after collecting 2 of our own high picks and seeing what the other 2023 picks have yielded.
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And if not pursuing free agents in 2024 (either by design or because the signings might just not be there), that would be the year to take on dead salary to pick up some more picks since that will be the last year prior to the cap spike and lots of teams looking to get under the cap AND the Jazz figure to have an absolute **** load of space (but maybe they try to pull some super-team ****...).
 
With the passage of time, if it was RJ+ matching salary + 2 unprotected + the three junk first + they were taking Gay’s salary, I probably would have done that deal.

Hope Ainge makes me feel stupid and ends up with a trove of picks. If Ainge can get Toppin + Grimes + 3 unprotected + 2 junk FRPs + some seconds, I’d consider that better. But I do think there’s a chance we let the better deal pass us by. We’ll see I guess.
 
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Ineptimusprime said:
With the passage of time, if it was RJ+ matching salary + 2 unprotected + the three junk first + they were taking Gay’s salary, I probably would have done that deal.

Hope Ainge makes me feel stupid and ends up with a trove of picks.
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They add Obi a swap and some seconds and it gets done.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
With the passage of time, if it was RJ+ matching salary + 2 unprotected + the three junk first + they were taking Gay’s salary, I probably would have done that deal.

Hope Ainge makes me feel stupid and ends up with a trove of picks.
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They add an unprotected 1st and Toppin or Quickley while subtracting a protected 1st.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I will gladly take this too.
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I feel like swaps are overvalued around here. If NY ends up being better than us the swap is worthless. NY will likely be better than us for the next 2-3 years at least so the swaps would have to come much further down the line to have a chance at having any value.

And even then, Michell is 25 and could still be a Knick well into the future. There’s just too much of a chance that the swaps end up being worthless for me to put too much value into them.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
I feel like swaps are overvalued around here. If NY ends up being better than us the swap is worthless. NY will likely be better than us for the next 2-3 years at least so the swaps would have to come much further down the line to have a chance at having any value.
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Swaps in 25/27 that we can swap with ours or Minnesota’s picks would be ideal.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
I feel like swaps are overvalued around here. If NY ends up being better than us the swap is worthless. NY will likely be better than us for the next 2-3 years at least so the swaps would have to come much further down the line to have a chance at having any value.
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1. You can structure swaps to apply to more than the two respective teams' picks (commonly referred to as super swaps)
2. It's well within the realm of possibility, and I think likely, that the Jazz are better than the Knicks in '25 and '27 anyway.
 
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