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Jazz history, Status Quo and Social Media

Lion's Roar

Lion's Roar

Active Member
Hi there folks.

Most of you probably don't know me. I've been with this site for over 10 years now on a variety of nicknames. I was a moderator and contributor for quite some time under the nicknames asgaarder and AsgThunder. I was here before during and after the RealGM merge/unmerge. I was here during the Stockton and Malone days. I was here during the Deron/Boozer years and I'm still around altough mostly in the shadows and I'm not all that active anymore.

I'm speaking out at this point cause I believe the ranting as reached a fever pitch and a state that I haven't seen in 10 years. The event of the social media has created a forum where fans are stating their opinions often and loudly. And who are the ones that talk the most? The ones that are against the Status Quo. I know that's the case. I WAS ONCE the one bickering at the FO and arguing about some decisions. I don't want to be here preaching from a high horse. I'm not a better fan they you guys that disagree with the Status Quo nor am I worse than you. But I think ppl need to chill out and think for a while about what we're witnessing. First of all a refresh on Jazz history:

* Malone didn't start his first year.
* Stockton didn't start till his 4th year.
* S&M were ousted in the first round of the playoffs something like 5 times.
* It took S&M 13 years to reach the Finals.
* Even after playing 17 years together S&M only went to the WCF 5 times.
* The left block post up that fans like to really go after Al for was once a staple of the Jazz offense with Malone working from there.
* For many, MANY years the Jazz offense had little movement. There were no zone defenses allowed and the Jazz played the PnR on one side with the three other players (Eaton included) standing behind the 3 pt line on the other corner. (no one seemed to complain back then)
* I've seen time and again fans going after Sloan and now they act like he was some sort of wizard and should be back and that Ty is so, so bad although his team keeps winning.

What I'm trying to say is that I believe we should be patient. Winning isn't easy in the NBA. It wasn't in the S&M days. Developing talent isn't easy either. Tanking sometimes only leads to a whole lot of years being really bad. It's been just two years since Deron left and we've been in the playoff hunt since and still have 4 lottery picks on board. Other teams like the position the Jazz are in, seemingly only Jazz fans don't like the position their team is in.

Do I believe the FO is always right? No. Neither is the coaching staff. Am I saying to wait 17 years for a Finals appearance? No. Am I glad with the minutes played by the young players. Sometimes, other times I'm not happy at all. I wake up and try and figure out if the Jazz made a move. But in the end of the day I think they would be better suited not making a move at all. Increases the chances of going to the playoffs and simple cap space can be truly underestimated.

So in retrospect we're 4 games over .500, 7th seed in the West, 5 lottery picks on the roster, 2 draft picks coming up on a draft rich in the position the Jazz lack, and a ton of cap space moving forward. Is that really that bad?

PS: Sorry for the long post.
 
Stockton started 38 games his second year, always played plenty of minutes, and did not get one single DNP ever until he was a veteran.
 
Thanks for the nice post and it was not too long, but very thoughtful. Long ones are great if well thought out.

First, I would think that most understand that it takes patience and a long time to make a great team. It usually takes the most talented several years of increasing success in the playoffs to finally get a ring. I think we would be fine with that if it looked like that was where we were heading. I have zero belief that a Big Al, Paul Milsap focus will get us within sniffing distance of a ring, not even close. Do you really expect this team to make noise in the playoffs?

I see another embarrassment coming and no hope for a ring. And therein lies my impatience: the Jazz seem set on going forward with a lineup that gives them no chance. Could the young 4 do it? Not right away, but there is at least SOME hope that over time they could. So bring it on now. I am willing to have patience with that, but not with obvious continuous mediocrity.

Finally, Jazz history at this point = failure. No rings, no banners. So, what is so great about our history?
 
Thanks for posting, I appreciate most of what you said. I agree the Jazz are in a great position from a basketball managment perspective. But salary cap flexibility doesn't win games, and it doesn't sell the product to the fans. The Jazz are struggling to give the fans a player who they can identify as the face of the team: is it Paul or Al who are most likely leaving in July or is it Favors and Hayward who play 18 minutes a night off the bench and rarely down the stretch? I honestly don't know if I should be cheering Big Al or not, and if I cheer for what reason. The confusion has lead to fan apathy being the highest since maybe 2001-2002ish when it was clear S&M were done, and fans were ready for the new era to begin.

The Jazz recognized the problem in the last 2-3 weeks as the green seats brought more of a presence. But even as Dennis, Kevin and the other Jazz employees hit the airwaves and print media to preach patience, they still have not identified to the fans who the main players are. And as they suggest the future is the Core Four, it is not consistent with what I see Corbin doing on a nightly basis.

Love my Jazz, just a bit confused right now.

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Lion's Roar said:
* The left block post up that fans like to really go after Al for was once a staple of the Jazz offense with Malone working from there.
Click to expand...
1. Malone was much better than Al at scoring (.577 v. .531 career TS%) and passing (17.6 v. 8.8 career assist%) the basketball.

2. Oh...so you're the guy who used to glory in Portugal's history of subjugating foreign peoples.
 
mellow said:
The Jazz recognized the problem in the last 2-3 weeks as the green seats brought more of a presence. But even as Dennis, Kevin and the other Jazz employees hit the airwaves and print media to preach patience, they still have not identified to the fans who the main players are. And as they suggest the future is the Core Four, it is not consistent with what I see Corbin doing on a nightly basis.

Love my Jazz, just a bit confused right now.
Click to expand...

That's because they don't know themselves. I believe they are trying to figure this out more in practice than in the actual games. I believe the quick trigger of Corbin is to establish the correct rotations both offensively and defensively.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But for me status quo shouldn't apply in basketball. You got to make a choice and the choice you make got to be the most logical and in long term the organization should gain the maximum favor from it. Thats why organizations got a management team to decide about how should we take our next step in certain conjuncture, thats what a succesful organization would do. And the conjuncture is always changing in basketball, there are lots of variable factor in it so you got the show reflexes to it and status quo would just holds you back. That's what i think.
 
Why is there any reverence for "Jazz history"? What have they done? I look in the list of champions and I do not see Utah Jazz listed.
 
GVC said:
1. Malone was much better than Al at scoring (.577 v. .531 career TS%) and passing (17.6 v. 8.8 career assist%) the basketball.
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say? That Malone was a better player than Al Jefferson? Yeah that's correct. Probably why Karl was given the ball more often than Al.

2. Oh...so you're the guy who used to glory in Portugal's history of subjugating foreign peoples.
Click to expand...

Not going to enter into much about this one unless you want to talk in another forum. But since you brought it up I am just going to say that Portugal had 1 Millions ppl in population and spread out to more than 50 countries. But to your knowledge because of the little population the Portuguese empire was established not trough annihilation of the indigenous ppl (like the Spanish and the English in America) but trough marriage and interbreeding with the natives. In fact most biracial mixes can be traced back to those times.
 
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