John Stockton Claims Medicine is Bad

[Mongoose]

You all should watch “Dallas Buyers Club” and read into the history of a lot of the medications that these pharma companies have put out there. vioxx, OxyContin, AZT among others. The list is long and these companies have already shown that in their opinion death is collateral damage they can live with and all they care about in many cases is securing enough profits to pay the settlements.

 

[SteakNEggs]

The issue isn't masking it with prescription drugs. It is much larger than that. The problem is we are beholden to medical services as businesses first and foremost. This means highest price and lowest cost is the mantra. Hence $500 single doses of Tylenol pills. And this is a business model that is truly an oligopoly, since we have very little choice in healthcare that isn't prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of Americans. Couple this with out of control litigation and the costs are astronomical compared to almost any other developed nation. The last time this was analyzed by the WHO, we ranked just below Iran, iirc, in overall health care system. We subsidize the rest of the world by allowing pharma companies to maintain their patents far longer than other nations allow and we do nothing to control prescription drug expenses. In Germany, for example, price for prescriptions drugs had to follow a set of criteria to avoid the insane markups we see here of 1000% or more on some drugs. Since we have no such controls, we pay far and away the most out of pocket of any developed nation, which subsidizes the expenses in other countries, and bolsters record profit margins for pharma companies. And pharmaceuiticals is only one area in which we lag behind the rest of the world. We lag behind in nearly every other measure of a functioning healthcare system, including basic access to medical care, wait times, and even quality of outcome, and far and away the most lawsuits related to health care. We have done nothing to improve our health care system beyond bolstering profits for the businesses involved, at the extreme expense of the patients, who are just their customers.

Yes we need to do a lot more than just prescribe medication. I saw this personally with my wife who had always had hip pain our entire marriage, and in the states, even after she had lost 75 pounds, she was told it was a weight issue and they looked no further. Once we moved to Germany they had her in for an MRI within 4 days, and then an appointment with a specialist within 4 days after that, then physical therapy within 5 days after that, as they diagnosed hip dysplasia which should have been diagnoses here decades before. And the physical therapy worked, her pain was largely ameliorated. Then we move back here and her doctors scoff at what the germans told us. Surely they can't know modern medicine, right? PT here was largely ineffective as it focused on heat and minor stretching and wasn't geared toward dealing with HD the way we experienced in Germany. She went through gastric bypass and has since lost over 100 pounds. And a couple of months ago we had an MRI for her hip, after a 6 month wait. And then it took 6 weeks to get back into the specialist. For them to finally admit, hey there is hip dysplasia here. No ****? Then the PT she got was mostly just hot compresses and very little actual manipulation because it was as if the doctors and PT didn't know what to do for that condition. They treated it merely as bursitis, which is a symptom but not the underlying cause, oh and with prescriptions for muscle relaxants, of course. Here is the kicker: total cost for the treatment in Germany, incl. PT = about €200, maybe €750 if you factor in the overall cost of healthcare coverage, as in premiums out of my paycheck. Total cost here? Well in excess of $4000 (our basic deductible plus coinsurance after it was met), and that does NOT include premiums.

So a lot higher cost for worse care and far longer wait times. That is the problem we are facing in this country. Add far less availability on top of that and the over-use of prescription drugs itself is merely a symptom of a broken system. It is way bigger than that.

Great post and no argument from me. Our medical system is a massive failure in more ways than one, if not a majority. I maintain to a much much smaller degree that Stockton was making a similar point in that just taking medicine does nothing... Instead looking into preventative measures, other options outside of Big Pharma ie acupuncture and massive physical therapy that find the root causes of said injuries. I reiterate that your post is much more complex and deeper but still what Stockton was saying was taken completely out of context by the @The Thriller s of the board just looking for any excuse to be mean and divisive.

To bring politics into it, while Orange man didn't do really anything as far as healthcare which I think was a massive failure on his part he did fight to make prescription drugs cheaper. He fought to make big pharma put actual cost right on the labels and commercials but Democrats fought that. He also fought to make insulin cheaper for some and Biden squashed that then stole it from him. He also fought to make it easier to get generic drugs from Canada... With that said he failed massively in the rest. Maybe if he had 4 more years but he never displayed a plan.

As far as a solution... Y'allay grasp and I've fought against it but...I'm open to a more socialistic with approach if done properly. ACA was not the solution imo as it forced people like me out of my insurance that I was plenty happy with for a much ******** plan. Sadly both sides have too much interest in fighting than actually solving anything.

 

[LogGrad98]

Great post and no argument from me. Our medical system is a massive failure in more ways than one, if not a majority. I maintain to a much much smaller degree that Stockton was making a similar point in that just taking medicine does nothing... Instead looking into preventative measures, other options outside of Big Pharma ie acupuncture and massive physical therapy that find the root causes of said injuries. I reiterate that your post is much more complex and deeper but still what Stockton was saying was taken completely out of context by the @The Thriller s of the board just looking for any excuse to be mean and divisive.

To bring politics into it, while Orange man didn't do really anything as far as healthcare which I think was a massive failure on his part he did fight to make prescription drugs cheaper. He fought to make big pharma put actual cost right on the labels and commercials but Democrats fought that. He also fought to make insulin cheaper for some and Biden squashed that then stole it from him. He also fought to make it easier to get generic drugs from Canada... With that said he failed massively in the rest. Maybe if he had 4 more years but he never displayed a plan.

As far as a solution... Y'allay grasp and I've fought against it but...I'm open to a more socialistic with approach if done properly. ACA was not the solution imo as it forced people like me out of my insurance that I was plenty happy with for a much ******** plan. Sadly both sides have too much interest in fighting than actually solving anything.

Worse than in-fighting is the fact that so many politicians of every ilk are in the pockets of the medical machinery of our society. We'll never see better regulations on pharma because they put too much money into too many pockets. We'll likely never see any improvements in our insurance system because there is too much money flowing into the pockets of our leaders, elected to serve the people but instead line their own pockets. We're seeing it now in larger measure even in the supreme court. As long as lobbying runs unfettered and there is zero transparency in politicians' personal finances there is no incentive for them to take anything like this seriously. They stand to lose way too much personally. We might already be beyond the point of no return in this. Which is sad given the power of our country overall, and the fact that if we took this kind of **** seriously we could put together the best health-care system in the world.

There will be token attempts, some of which may be more sincere, but the ever-widening chasm in our legislature will ensure nothing meaningful ever gets off the ground. While lobbying and the money changing hands under the tables will ensure that not much meaningful ever sees the light of day in the first place.

We are a great example of the snake of capitalism eating its own tail. But I guess everyone can still dream of winning the lottery, right?

 

[LogGrad98]

You all should watch “Dallas Buyers Club” and read into the history of a lot of the medications that these pharma companies have put out there. vioxx, OxyContin, AZT among others. The list is long and these companies have already shown that in their opinion death is collateral damage they can live with and all they care about in many cases is securing enough profits to pay the settlements.

Very true. Worst of all it's America that foots the bill for the rest of the world having affordable pharmaceuticals. We pay astronomically high prices to make sure their record profits continue despite pharma being required by all other developed nations to provide their products at reasonable prices so it is reasonable available to those who need it.

 

[SteakNEggs]

Worse than in-fighting is the fact that so many politicians of every ilk are in the pockets of the medical machinery of our society. We'll never see better regulations on pharma because they put too much money into too many pockets. We'll likely never see any improvements in our insurance system because there is too much money flowing into the pockets of our leaders, elected to serve the people but instead line their own pockets. We're seeing it now in larger measure even in the supreme court. As long as lobbying runs unfettered and there is zero transparency in politicians' personal finances there is no incentive for them to take anything like this seriously. They stand to lose way too much personally. We might already be beyond the point of no return in this. Which is sad given the power of our country overall, and the fact that if we took this kind of **** seriously we could put together the best health-care system in the world.

There will be token attempts, some of which may be more sincere, but the ever-widening chasm in our legislature will ensure nothing meaningful ever gets off the ground. While lobbying and the money changing hands under the tables will ensure that not much meaningful ever sees the light of day in the first place.

We are a great example of the snake of capitalism eating its own tail. But I guess everyone can still dream of winning the lottery, right?

So I dont mean to sound snobby and start fights but this is exactly why so many people were hesitant to take a vaccine. First and foremost we have both Biden and Kamala saying they do not trust this vaccine because of Trump. Then months later you have both of these people literally bullying people for not taking the vaccine. A vaccine that wasn't even a year old nor approved. You have the President lying on air that if you take this drug you will not get COVID, then literally starting an entity of the government to censor people claiming "misinformation".

Companies like Pfizer are marking up life saving drugs thousands of percentages. Drugs like penicillin, insulin, chemo drugs are all sold at astronomical rates. Hell even the vaccine went up 400+% once our government quit giving them billions of dollars. We discussed already a higher up of Pfizer ON CAMERA admitting they literally buy politicians with cushy jobs. You watch commercials and... just for example I seen one for the flu that had 10+ side effects "including diarrhea and nausea". That makes little sense to me. A commercial drug that supposed to stop the flu that basically gives you the flu? Why do we even have drug commercials? Because it's a business first and foremost.

And with that you have people literally being fascist pigs wishing painful death and calling others murderers for not trusting the very entities we are hating on right now.. Calling others murderers You have a group of people "thrilled" to be **** humans and preach unity while being garbage to anyone that didn't bow down to him and kiss his hateful feet and conform. In this very thread you have people that now HATE John Stockton because he didn't wear a useless cloth mask. Joe Rogan took his own prescribed medicines his doctor prescribes and the fascist authoritarian...I use this term very losely...Nazis(sorry but the way the were "Thrilled" to be hateful I have no better word) wanted him cancelled, in jail, and to be shunned into nonexistence. All because he took a Noble Peace Prize winning drug. Now we can debate if it worked or not but he should have his own choice to do what he wants without him being treated with such hate and discontent. John Stockton as well... He's now hated because he didn't conform to The Man. He's a perfectly healthy individual that didn't hurt nor kill anyone. Anyone... .. .

I could go on how we now know natural immunity is extremely effective but that's a different story. We sit and talk all this **** about Big Pharma and our terrible failure of a medical system but when people like me didn't trust this very entity that kill a lot of people and price gouges people like you and your wife we were treated like 2nd class citizens and shunned. Personally I feel forcing others to put a medicine in their bodies is one of the biggest human rights violations in my lifetime.

People don't like me here because I am straightforward and admittedly I will push back with my own bullying but I have legit reasons why I am the way I am here. This is one of them. To be clear I actually appreciate your responses here and they are very good well thought out points. I kind of went off track here but it's still in the same category that most people were not antivax(some definitely were)we were terrified of being fascistly forced into something we were not comfortable with. We do not trust the government or companies that will charge thousands for a cheap life saving drugs. The same government that let hundreds of thousands, if not millions of unvaccinated immigrants into our country during this timeframe. That's not bigotry to point that out... that's sheer stupidity and hypocrisy on the ones running this country. I'm not blaming immigrants on anything, I'm pointing out the double standards, just to be clear. Immigrants, PoC, religious people and many others didn't trust the jab either. Not just one faction that people were "Thrilled" to bully and be terrible humans to then preach unity in the same breath.

 

[sip]

“medicine is not good for us…”

Me: I dunno man. The life expectancy over the last 100 years seems to say otherwise. Were we more sedentary 100 years ago? More obese? Or has *medicine* helped us? We could also look at infant mortality rates, deaths per 1,000, and just sheer population values to show that medicine has had a huge positive impact on mankind over the past 100 years.

View attachment 14377
My wife and child probably wouldn’t be alive today without medicine. He was breach and required a c section. He was also born premature, wasn’t breathing in his own, and was cared for in the NICU for a few weeks. Not really sure how that would’ve worked out well if not for modern-day medicine. Personally, I’ve been relieved of much suffering with modern-day medicine of root canals, wisdom teeth removal, and most of all a tonsillectomy. I was getting sick every 3-4 weeks because of my tonsils. I wouldn’t have wanted to live very long without modern day medicine curing me of that.

It really bugs me when complete jerks like Stockton crap all over medicine. It’s not that they’ve never experienced the benefits of medicine because of their genes. It’s because they’re too proud and have their identities too wrapped up in this nonsense to admit that they’ve been fitted from medicine. I seem to remember Stockton’s career being prolonged by a knee operation in 97-98, right? I wonder how he would’ve played without modern-daymedicine to clean up that knee?

Stockton can **** all the way off.

Hands down the most uninformed post in this thread. It is well known that the leading factor in humans living longer is less major wars, access to cleaner drinking water, better sanitation systems and more food stability. What is undeniably impacting us negatively though is the common persons diet of excessive processed foods and insane amount of seed oils which is compounded by a lack of exercise. This has caused americans to be overprescribed medications for virtually everything but it hasn't led to a healthier population. You are also wrongfully intertwining medications with medical procedures. He isn't arguing that people shouldn't be getting surgery that need it. He is arguing that people are quick to focus on medication as being a magic pill when there are other ways to treat things naturally.

 

[The Thriller]

Hands down the most uninformed post in this thread. It is well known that the leading factor in humans living longer is less major wars, access to cleaner drinking water, better sanitation systems and more food stability. What is undeniably impacting us negatively though is the common persons diet of excessive processed foods and insane amount of seed oils which is compounded by a lack of exercise. This has caused americans to be overprescribed medications for virtually everything but it hasn't led to a healthier population. You are also wrongfully intertwining medications with medical procedures. He isn't arguing that people shouldn't be getting surgery that need it. He is arguing that people are quick to focus on medication as being a magic pill when there are other ways to treat things naturally.

“I trust in experts unless their expertise comes into conflict with my political views.”

Simplified it for you and John.

 

[The Thriller]

Very true. Worst of all it's America that foots the bill for the rest of the world having affordable pharmaceuticals. We pay astronomically high prices to make sure their record profits continue despite pharma being required by all other developed nations to provide their products at reasonable prices so it is reasonable available to those who need it.

That’s why the “free market” shouldn’t play a role in the health care system. It means that those who need medicine/treatment the most will be exploited. The free market system is great for selling popcorn, TVs, and cars aka consumer goods. It’s horrific for delivering health care. Before the ACA was passed, I remember a neighbor who was uninsurable because she had beaten cancer in her teens. Even though she was a healthy person in her 30s, she was denied health care coverage due to pre-conditions because insurance companies didn’t want to take her on as a risky investment. Thank god the ACA was passed. Otherwise, she’d be in her 50s now without insurance. Now that’s risky!

I was reading a few weeks ago about Boomers who have saved up hundreds of thousands but who are now going broke. Why? Because nursing homes and hospice are so ****ing expensive. Even a relatively well (physically and financially) off retiree may easily find themselves ****ed when they need help the most.

As our population ages, health care costs will only continue to expand. And without necessary regulation, there will be no ceiling to the costs and no end to who’ll be cast aside all so a handful of billionaires and shareholders can squeeze out a little bit more profit.

But no worries, Donald has a health care plan. Just wait a few more weeks. In two more weeks he’ll reveal it. Just two more weeks.

 

[SteakNEggs]

But no worries, Donald has a health care plan. Just wait a few more weeks. In two more weeks he’ll reveal it. Just two more weeks.

I know you're mocking me as you are too afraid to debate or address me personally(i find it cowardly either address me or dont), but I openly said his healthcare plan was a failure. Not as bad a ACA but at least Obama failed and tried, I'll give him credit. Biden is worse than Trump however that's possible. Funny how you have nothing to say about that... Just cry about Trump.

 

[Mongoose]

“I trust in experts unless their expertise comes into conflict with my political views.”

Simplified it for you and John.

Is this sarcasm or is this for real? Also do you think that everyone should be able to express this selective trust or just democrats?

 

[The Thriller]

Is this sarcasm or is this for real? Also do you think that everyone should be able to express this selective trust or just democrats?

Sigh

The politicization of experts and experts (some by the left but primarily on the right) because the world that experts and expertise has created over the past 250 years is too prosperous and boring for a large segment of the population is just too exhausting for me to debate. If you morons want to engage is pseudo science and conspiracy, go ahead. But in my field of work (and life) I’ll rely on experts and the wonderful peer reviewed expertise that’s available today. I don’t need to go to some bored former basketball player who’s into Facebook too much or some steroid pumped podcaster and former reality tv host to get my medical advice.

It does sadden me how many Americans are so bored with life that they seek out on the internet the craziest advice out there. Whether it be on climate change, foreign policy, or medicine. There’s a real anger against experts and these people are too stupid to understand that the snake oil salesman they’re putting their trust in are merely exploiting them for dollars. But sure, I guess listening to stockton is far more entertaining than listening to Fauci.

 

[SteakNEggs]

Sigh

The politicization of experts and experts because the world that experts and expertise has created over the past 250 years is too prosperous and boring for a large segment of the population is just too exhausting for me to debate. If you morons want to engage is pseudo science and conspiracy, go ahead. But in my field of work (and life) I’ll rely on experts and the wonderful peer reviewed expertise that’s available today. I don’t need to go to some bored former basketball player who’s into Facebook too much or some steroid pumped podcaster and former reality tv host to get my medical advice.

It does sadden me how many Americans are so bored with life that they seek out on the internet the craziest advice out there. Whether it be on climate change, foreign policy, or medicine. There’s a real anger against experts and these people are too stupid to understand that the snake oil salesman they’re putting their trust in are merely exploiting them for dollars. But sure, I guess listening to stockton is far more entertaining than listening to Fauci.

"My field of work"

Lololololol

 

[Mongoose]

Sigh

The politicization of experts and experts because the world that experts and expertise has created over the past 250 years is too prosperous and boring for a large segment of the population is just too exhausting for me to debate. If you morons want to engage is pseudo science and conspiracy, go ahead. But in my field of work (and life) I’ll rely on experts and the wonderful peer reviewed expertise that’s available today. I don’t need to go to some bored former basketball player who’s into Facebook too much or some steroid pumped podcaster and former reality tv host to get my medical advice.

It does sadden me how many Americans are so bored with life that they seek out on the internet the craziest advice out there. Whether it be on climate change, foreign policy, or medicine. There’s a real anger against experts and these people are too stupid to understand that the snake oil salesman they’re putting their trust in are merely exploiting them for dollars. But sure, I guess listening to stockton is far more entertaining than listening to Fauci.

So just democrats? Otherwise you're a moron for doing your own research. If you believe the pharma industry would never exploit people for dollars you might want to do a little research, and it doesn't take much. Even a complete moron could see some issues. Some drugs you might want to look into.
Oxycontin
Risperdal
Bextra
AZT
Vioxx
Thalidomide
etc.

I know it makes you a moron to read, but If you are willing to do a little bit of reading you can see that the pharma settlements are becoming more and more frequent in recent years. You can draw your own conclusions.

Company	Amount of penalties	Year
GlaxoSmithKline	$3 billion	2012
Pfizer	$2.3 billion	2009
Johnson & Johnson	$2.2 billion	2013
Abbott	$1.5 billion	2012
Eli Lilly	$1.42 billion	2009
Merck	$950 million	2011
Amgen	$762 million	2012
AstraZeneca	$520 million	2010
Actelion	$360 million	2018
Purdue Pharma	$270 million	2019

10 Biggest Pharmaceutical Settlements in History

Big Pharma sometimes has big legal problems. The courts are still catching up, and these settlements are in the millions and billions of dollars. See why.

www.enjuris.com

 

[The Thriller]

So just democrats? Otherwise you're a moron for doing your own research. If you believe the pharma industry would never exploit people for dollars you might want to do a little research, and it doesn't take much. Even a complete moron could see some issues. Some drugs you might want to look into.
Oxycontin
Risperdal
Bextra
AZT
Vioxx
Thalidomide
etc.

I know it makes you a moron to read, but If you are willing to do a little bit of reading you can see that the pharma settlements are becoming more and more frequent in recent years. You can draw your own conclusions.

Company	Amount of penalties	Year
GlaxoSmithKline	$3 billion	2012
Pfizer	$2.3 billion	2009
Johnson & Johnson	$2.2 billion	2013
Abbott	$1.5 billion	2012
Eli Lilly	$1.42 billion	2009
Merck	$950 million	2011
Amgen	$762 million	2012
AstraZeneca	$520 million	2010
Actelion	$360 million	2018
Purdue Pharma	$270 million	2019

10 Biggest Pharmaceutical Settlements in History

Big Pharma sometimes has big legal problems. The courts are still catching up, and these settlements are in the millions and billions of dollars. See why.

www.enjuris.com

I think this topic is too technical for you to discuss in a civil and informative manner.

And LOL @ you accusing me of defending Big Pharma and our free market health care system. Not sure that’s happened before. Can’t wait to tell my wife about this, she’ll get a good laugh too. Experts and expertise is not synonymous with… whatever you’re trying to connect it with, “free market capitalism” maybe? Like I said, this topic is too technical for you.

 

[Mongoose]

I think this topic is too technical for you to discuss in a civil and informative manner.

And LOL @ you accusing me of defending Big Pharma and our free market health care system. Not sure that’s happened before. Can’t wait to tell my wife about this, she’ll get a good laugh too. Experts and expertise is not synonymous with… whatever you’re trying to connect it with, “free market capitalism” maybe? Like I said, this topic is too technical for you.

there's that trump ego of yours

 

[Douchebag K]

Hands down the most uninformed post in this thread. It is well known that the leading factor in humans living longer is less major wars, access to cleaner drinking water, better sanitation systems and more food stability. What is undeniably impacting us negatively though is the common persons diet of excessive processed foods and insane amount of seed oils which is compounded by a lack of exercise. This has caused americans to be overprescribed medications for virtually everything but it hasn't led to a healthier population. You are also wrongfully intertwining medications with medical procedures. He isn't arguing that people shouldn't be getting surgery that need it. He is arguing that people are quick to focus on medication as being a magic pill when there are other ways to treat things naturally.

100 % on the money. That Jackass isn’t capable of anything more than the most shallow myopic thinking. I do enjoy that he’s so unaware that he keeps loudly displaying his stupidity though

 

[One Brow]

Hands down the most uninformed post in this thread. It is well known that the leading factor in humans living longer is less major wars, access to cleaner drinking water, better sanitation systems and more food stability.

All of this is connected to infant mortality, and so is modern medicine. At the old end of the spectrum, a person living to 50 today might get 3 or 5 years of additional life expectancy compared to a person living a thousand years ago. A baby being born will will get 30 years.

What is undeniably impacting us negatively though is the common persons diet of excessive processed foods and insane amount of seed oils which is compounded by a lack of exercise. This has caused americans to be overprescribed medications for virtually everything but it hasn't led to a healthier population. You are also wrongfully intertwining medications with medical procedures. He isn't arguing that people shouldn't be getting surgery that need it. He is arguing that people are quick to focus on medication as being a magic pill when there are other ways to treat things naturally.

So, the medical establishment is not to blame, it's our lifestyle. Most people find it difficult to change their lifestyle. Should we deny them the medicine that improves the life they are leading?

 

[LogGrad98]

That’s why the “free market” shouldn’t play a role in the health care system. It means that those who need medicine/treatment the most will be exploited. The free market system is great for selling popcorn, TVs, and cars aka consumer goods. It’s horrific for delivering health care. Before the ACA was passed, I remember a neighbor who was uninsurable because she had beaten cancer in her teens. Even though she was a healthy person in her 30s, she was denied health care coverage due to pre-conditions because insurance companies didn’t want to take her on as a risky investment. Thank god the ACA was passed. Otherwise, she’d be in her 50s now without insurance. Now that’s risky!

I was reading a few weeks ago about Boomers who have saved up hundreds of thousands but who are now going broke. Why? Because nursing homes and hospice are so ****ing expensive. Even a relatively well (physically and financially) off retiree may easily find themselves ****ed when they need help the most.

As our population ages, health care costs will only continue to expand. And without necessary regulation, there will be no ceiling to the costs and no end to who’ll be cast aside all so a handful of billionaires and shareholders can squeeze out a little bit more profit.

But no worries, Donald has a health care plan. Just wait a few more weeks. In two more weeks he’ll reveal it. Just two more weeks.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, health care needs to be treated as a utility. We don't auction off electricity to the highest bidder or require people to take out loans to get their garbage picked up. Because we recognize as a society that providing these basics helps all of us together. It's about time we recognize the same thing about medical care. Forcing people to not be able to get basic care causes them to use emergency services and wait until it really is an emergency which is demonstrably far more expensive than preventative care. Plus people that don't have to worry about healthcare are less stressed, healthier and far more productive, which benefits us all. And then when we do have true emergencies, it's likely to be less severe and the money is there to take care of it. Why can't we figure this **** out? We worship capitalism so hard, and we deify billionaires so much, we lose sight of what makes a society work. Socialism has become such an evil word that half our population is completely brainwashed against anything you can label as "socialist". Tell your anti-socialism neighbor that our electricity, water/sewer and road systems are partially socialized and watch their head explode. But until we figure out how to turn health care into a utility things are going to get worse. Way worse.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ya i pay hundreds of dollars per month for insurance yet its still so expensive to get treated for things that i have needed surgery on a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder since last September but havent gotten the surgery because i cant afford it.

 

[Douchebag K]

Ya i pay hundreds of dollars per month for insurance yet its still so expensive to get treated for things that i have needed surgery on a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder since last September but havent gotten the surgery because i cant afford it.

Wanking injury ?? That’s how Rubashov did his shoulder