Las Vegas: Worst Mass Shooting in US History

[Zombie]

This **** right here is so infuriating.
If a politician said this after a terrorist attack carried out by a radical Muslim they'd get run out of office.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Looks like an armed citizen stopped this guy, if not killed him, and yet this puke still managed to kill 27 people and wound two dozen more.

So can the morons on the left finally concede the need to protect the second amendment and the morons on the right concede we are in desperate need of common sense legislation to outlaw assault weapons, 30-60 round mags and any other type of weapon or accessory that isn't needed for basic self-protection?

i think nobody in t he chrurch (was allowed) to carry. a neighbour of the church had to stop this armed guy!


so you point is moot.

you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to point a gun at me to disarm me! wether you eprsonally point the gun at me, or use government

 

[JazzGal]

This is interesting.

http://time.com/5011519/texas-church-shooting-mental-health-donald-trump/

President Trump said the Texas church shooting was largely a "mental health" problem, but at the beginning of his presidency he rolled back a regulation that would have made it harder for people with histories of mental illness to purchase guns.

In February 2017, Trump signed a bill that undid a regulation from Barack Obama's presidency which said the Social Security Administration would have to report certain mentally ill recipients and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database, NBC reports. The Obama Administration said the rule would have added 75,000 names to the database.

The rule would only "impact a person if he or she has been determined to be so severely impaired by a mental condition that he or she is unable to manage his or her own benefits, in which case, he or she is already prohibited form purchasing or possessing guns," Lindsay Nichols, senior attorney at the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said in congressional testimony in February. "The new rule will simply prevent this person from passing a gun purchaser background check only until after an evaluation of their specific capacity to take on the responsibilities of gun ownership."

The National Rifle Association, on the other hand, cheered Trump rescinding the rule as a win for Second Amendment rights. Other supporters of Trump's action, like Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, argued that the regulation infringed upon civil liberties and took away gun rights without due process of law. "If a specific individual is likely to be violent due to the nature of their mental illness," Grassley said, "then the government should have to prove it," NPR reports.

Responding to Sunday's mass shooting at a church in South Texas, which left at least 26 people dead and 20 others injured, Trump said, "I think that mental health is your problem here." He added, "We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries. But this isn't a guns situation."

Shooting suspect Devin Kelly reportedly assaulted his spouse and child years ago, but it is not yet known how or when he purchased the gun used in the shooting. [I think they do now know when and where he purchased it]

According to data from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, only 3 to 5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness.

So all of our mass shootings by white guys are alleged to be because of mental illness, but a small percentage of violent acts are committed by the mentally ill. Hmmmm.

If you looked at the lists of mass shootings (4 or more shot) in the U.S. in just this year (sadly, there are hundreds of them), many are domestic violence. Perhaps we don't need more regulation about the mentally ill obtaining guns, but we really need research and money pumped into domestic violence issues. If someone is discharged from the military for abusing his spouse and child, such as this latest guy, he should never have been able to legally purchase an AR-15.

 

[LogGrad98]

This is interesting.

http://time.com/5011519/texas-church-shooting-mental-health-donald-trump/



So all of our mass shootings by white guys are alleged to be because of mental illness, but a small percentage of violent acts are committed by the mentally ill. Hmmmm.

If you looked at the lists of mass shootings (4 or more shot) in the U.S. in just this year (sadly, there are hundreds of them), many are domestic violence. Perhaps we don't need more regulation about the mentally ill obtaining guns, but we really need research and money pumped into domestic violence issues. If someone is discharged from the military for abusing his spouse and child, such as this latest guy, he should never have been able to legally purchase an AR-15.

I think it is more an issue with how they are defining mental illness. They likely mean people diagnosed with a severe condition. However, due to societal stigmas many people live with forms of mental illness that might precipitate this kind of event without an official diagnosis of any kind.

 

[JazzGal]

I think it is more an issue with how they are defining mental illness. They likely mean people diagnosed with a severe condition. However, due to societal stigmas many people live with forms of mental illness that might precipitate this kind of event without an official diagnosis of any kind.

Exactly, and I don't think it will ever be practical to prevent anyone who has suffered from depression or anxiety from obtaining guns. I don't think we can prevent people with hair-trigger tempers either, so ultimately we will continue to have mass shootings in this country. It is the price we pay for easy gun ownership, but it's likely too late to change our culture. Even though it seems like it is getting out of control, we are many times more likely to die in our cars, yet we still drive.

 

[LogGrad98]

Exactly, and I don't think it will ever be practical to prevent anyone who has suffered from depression or anxiety from obtaining guns. I don't think we can prevent people with hair-trigger tempers either, so ultimately we will continue to have mass shootings in this country. It is the price we pay for easy gun ownership, but it's likely too late to change our culture. Even though it seems like it is getting out of control, we are many times more likely to die in our cars, yet we still drive.

I don't think it is about finding out who these people are and making sure they can't hurt anyone. I think it is about making it less stigmatizing to get help, and making help more readily available and affordable, so more people will seek help and get treatment thereby lessening the instances of these outbursts. I think it is the price we pay by having the attitude that we can never do anything about mental illness in all its forms besides trying to stop them from hurting people. Guns just up the ante.

But no, you can never entirely stop people who are bent on hurting other people. History has taught us that. If someone is hell-bent on hurting people, in all likelihood they will find a way.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Exactly, and I don't think it will ever be practical to prevent anyone who has suffered from depression or anxiety from obtaining guns. I don't think we can prevent people with hair-trigger tempers either, so ultimately we will continue to have mass shootings in this country. It is the price we pay for easy gun ownership, but it's likely too late to change our culture. Even though it seems like it is getting out of control, we are many times more likely to die in our cars, yet we still drive.

yes, because driving cars is important. just as self defense against.

just as it is important to not turn into venezuela, where you will have to eat rats, because during 10-20 years everyyear youg ave the govenrment more and more rights.

the slipery slop falacy is REAL


would you rather live in venzuela where guns are illegal and you have to eat rats.

or live in the great ol USA where you have a nice relative rich live, but their is a small small small small change you get shot in a mass shooting!

 

[JazzGal]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/texas-killer-was-able-to-buy-guns-because-of-air-force-lapse/ar-AAuwkQ7?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

The gunman who slaughtered 26 people at a Texas church was able to buy weapons because the Air Force failed to report his domestic-violence conviction to the federal database that is used to conduct background checks on would-be gun purchasers, authorities said Monday.

Federal officials said the Air Force didn't submit Devin Patrick's Kelley's criminal history even though it was required to do so by Pentagon rules.

Kelley, 26, was found guilty of assault in an Air Force court-martial in 2012 for abusing his wife and her child and was given 12 months' confinement and a bad-conduct discharge in 2014. That same year, authorities said, he bought the first of four weapons.
Under Pentagon rules, information about convictions of military personnel for crimes like assault should be submitted to the FBI's Criminal Justice Investigation Services Division.

It's the kind of lapse that gun-control advocates say points to loopholes and failures with the background check system.
At issue is the Lautenberg Amendment, enacted by Congress in 1996. It was designed to prohibit people convicted of domestic violence from buying or possessing a firearm regardless of whether the crime was a felony or a misdemeanor.

"This is exactly the guy the Lautenberg Amendment is supposed to prevent from possessing a firearm," said Rachel VanLandingham, a professor at Southwestern Law School in Los Angeles and a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel and former judge advocate. "Of course, the law only works if folks are abiding by the law."

Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said in an email that the service is launching a review of its handling of Kelley's case and taking a comprehensive look at Air Force databases to make sure other cases have been reported correctly.

An initial review indicates that Kelley's conviction was not entered into the federal database by officials at Holloman Air Force Base's Office of Special Investigations, the Air Force said.

Kelley served at Holloman in New Mexico from 2010 until his discharge. He was in logistics, responsible for moving passengers and cargo.

Law enforcement authorities said Kelley owned four guns, including the three he had with him during the attack: a Ruger AR-15 that was used in the church and two handguns that were in his car. The weapons were purchased — one each year — from 2014 to this year.
A 2015 report by the Pentagon's inspector general found lapses in the military's reporting to civilian authorities of domestic violence convictions.

From Nov. 30, 1998, until last week, firearms purchases in the U.S. were denied 136,502 times because of a domestic violence conviction, according to Justice Department statistics.

"The fact this guy was even court-martialed at all indicates it reached a certain level of severity that should act as a red flag that this is a dangerous person and shouldn't have a gun," said Lindsay Nichols, the federal policy director at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, named after former Rep. Gabby Giffords, who was gravely wounded by a gunman in 2011.

These are the things that I wish we would clean up. I'm relieved to know that there are domestic violence regulations in place, however.

 

[DutchJazzer]

funny how this church is another gun free zone. maybe their should be a national radio tv internet add campaign, to inform these mass shooters that in gun free zones. no guns are allowed!

so if they wanna do mass shooting they should avoid these gun free zones and abide by the law!


i would donate 10.000 dollars to that ad campaign, ooh wait no. it would be foreign medling, dont want mueler on my case.

because mueler is on a witchhunt, he can search for any crime, and lets face it their are some laws i broke. everybody broke the law

 

[Deleted member 848]

Looks like an armed citizen stopped this guy, if not killed him, and yet this puke still managed to kill 27 people and wound two dozen more.

So can the morons on the left finally concede the need to protect the second amendment and the morons on the right concede we are in desperate need of common sense legislation to outlaw assault weapons, 30-60 round mags and any other type of weapon or accessory that isn't needed for basic self-protection?

Nah I'm cool with what my government does-- which is making guns hard to get a hold of period.

Seems to work for literally every country other than the United States-- but then again we don't ****** at the thought of guns

 

[Rubashov]

Exactly, and I don't think it will ever be practical to prevent anyone who has suffered from depression or anxiety from obtaining guns. I don't think we can prevent people with hair-trigger tempers either, so ultimately we will continue to have mass shootings in this country. It is the price we pay for easy gun ownership, but it's likely too late to change our culture. Even though it seems like it is getting out of control, we are many times more likely to die in our cars, yet we still drive.

Theoretically it would be near impossible to obtain a gun licence in Australia with a mental health history. It will also prohibit you from entering a number of occupations. I'm not sure how it works in reality, i suspect if you seek treatment for a mental health problem privately then confidentiality laws would make it fairly hard to undercover. If on the other hand you've engaged the public mental health system or have been detained under the mental health act it would be a relatively easy background check to perform.

I can't really see you guys doing anything to stop these mass shootings which is horribly sad, maybe the priest or vicar or whatever the hell you call him in the church should have been packing heat.

I don't think it is about finding out who these people are and making sure they can't hurt anyone. I think it is about making it less stigmatizing to get help, and making help more readily available and affordable, so more people will seek help and get treatment thereby lessening the instances of these outbursts. I think it is the price we pay by having the attitude that we can never do anything about mental illness in all its forms besides trying to stop them from hurting people. Guns just up the ante.

But no, you can never entirely stop people who are bent on hurting other people. History has taught us that. If someone is hell-bent on hurting people, in all likelihood they will find a way.

Yeah, look at the last London attack, they used cars and knives, a knife used properly in a confined space is a very effective weapon and if expertly used can be more effective than a gun. A friend of mine was hired to work with american soldiers after their experiences fighting in caves in Afghanistan, he was brought in to teach them knife fighting both defensive and offensive techniques because they found in close quarters like a cave being able to use a knife was more important than a firearm.

 

[Miggs]

Nah I'm cool with what my government does-- which is making guns hard to get a hold of period.

Seems to work for literally every country other than the United States-- but then again we don't ****** at the thought of guns

******?