Letting Paul Millsap leave killed the Utah Jazz
- Thread starter Yell42
- Start date
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
I agree. Nothing wrong with having a PURE backup PG though.
Kyoto
Well-Known Member
Fair warning, Jimmer was unstoppable on offense in college but in the NBA he can't hit a 3 to save his life.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
That's not college, I believe it to be the 2nd most competitive league in the world.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
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Led the league in 3 pt percentage last year though iirc
Favor Gobert lineup is better right now than Milsap Jefferson combo. And is going to be much better over the next 5 years.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Nope. You either believe in doing things right, or you don't. It's kind of funny that Utah has one of the best front courts in the league for years to come, and yet some fans want to continue to complain about a player who probably never really considered coming back to a team that had regressed the last two years he was here. Build a bridge already and get over it. Time to move on. Utah is extremely lucky to have a Favors/Gobert combo.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Wow. That sucks.
And people think he's anything more than a 3rd string PG in the league?
The biggest travesty of the 2004 Olympics was that now people think that the NBA clearly isn't 100x better than any other basketball league. In reality, it is. Put up sucky numbers over seas and you're probably going to be a bust in the NBA. I remember that one PG who killed us in the Olympics. I think the pacers signed him. He was never more than an energy player in the NBA.
Anyone who thinks that Burke wouldn't run circles around Neto right now is just being willingly blind.
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Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Preplexes me that you guys keep missing this point.....
Two late first rounders, and second rounders for Jefferson and Millsap is a joke! Richard Jefferson and Marvin Williams are trash, they don't count as assets.
Not only that but the Jazz could have done both things. Take back shorter, but still bad contracts from teams you trade Millsap and Jefferson too, and then take the GS deal. The GS deal was bare minimum save face deal after failing to trade Millsap and Jefferson.
Also, save the argument that their weren't any deals to be had. That's a stupid notion. Look at Boston and how easily Danny Ainge is collecting picks from auctioning off its players. Old, bad, it doesn't seem to matter, you can do it if you want.
The fact of the matter is, the Jazz weren't trying to trade Millsap or Jefferson. They decided it was better for the organization to win a few games for tickets sales, and because they were afraid to take a risk. They also sat on the fence on whether or not they liked Millsap and Jefferson instead of being confident and bold. Otherwise, they wouldn't have placated To Millsap and Jefferson by ensuring their starting jobs, even when it was clear Jefferson refused to play defense or pass the ball.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
I agree with this.
I'm just happy we have Gobert and Favors. We are extremely lucky.
However, if people try to argue about the past and whether the right decisions were made regarding Millsap and Jefferson I have to stick to my argument that it wasn't handled incorrectly. It's not a case of hindsight is 20/20 either. I knew they should have done it and campaigning for it back then. That's why it bugs me.
I am able to reconcile it though because of how excited I am for what we do have.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
We'll nickname them cold weather
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
It is hindsight. A retool could have very well worked out. It certainly has in Atlanta. Many other teams have rebuilt/retooled without getting rid of everyone. KOC did it once by bringing in free agents around AK, with a fortuitous draft pick of Deron. He hoped to do the same by replacing Boozer with Big Al. Then, with the surprise rebellion of Deron and departure of Sloan, by restocking with the pieces obtained in the Williams trade, along with signing some key vets (Mo, Foye, etc.). TBH, the team led by Millsap/Jefferson/Hayward SHOULD have been better. I think - had we stuck with it another season - and replacing Mo with a better PG, going after an upgrade over Foye, the team WOULD have been in the playoffs.
There are some who would have opted for the Philadelphia Experiment after Deron was traded. Just blow the whole thing up, trade away everyone for assets and rebuild from scratch. That's a valid argument. I don't think Utah fans were ready for that, and neither was management. But I do have to give KOC credit. He did a test retool by only committing to short-term deals. When DL decided to tear it down, he didn't have to deal with a ton of long-term, dead money on the books. Just look at teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Nets, etc. They've had to wait to clear bad contracts. And that's what always frustrates me when people bring up the Millsap/Jefferson "let them go for nothing" argument. Best case, the Jazz get protected 1st's and expirings (good value) or mid-level vets (which Utah didn't want). And that's exactly what Utah ended up with by using the cap space. They had amazing flexibility: they could have re-signed their vets, gone after two max-level FA's or used their available cap space to facilitate deals and pick up future assets.
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Add in Hayward and we can call it a Cold Front(court).
I do agree, though, that the development of Gobert - and pairing with Favors - is enough to cause chills. It has really increased my optimism. It was really hard to get behind a tandem of Favors/Kanter, which has always been shaky. Or any Favors/stretch-4 scenario. Favors just isn't a prototypical center; he can't bang with the big boys. And he acknowledges that he hates to play that role. The injury to Kanter was very fortuitous; it forced Gobert/Favors to play together for long stretches, and they've shown it can not only work, but often dominate.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
wrong. They're actually really good. Try watching some of their games.
No he didn't. And, your sentence is grammatically incorrect -- which is especially ironic in this case.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Hindsight is for people who don't have foresight.
The Jazz made a huge mistake not matching on Mathews and signing Bell. Retool mistake number #1
#2 The Jazz made a big mistake trading for Jefferson. They should have done their homework on him and not get bullied by Deron if he indeed did ask for Jefferson. I was appalled at the move the day he was traded for and so were other intelligent basketball fans.
3. Jazz continued to drag out the mistakes by not bailing on the so called retool, even after the writing was on the wall. Something many people observed far before Millsap and Jefferson walked. And in the process delayed the development of its young players.
These were dumb decisions then and now. It was debated back then too. This isn't a big surprise revelation. Most people wanted Jefferson traded, but the minority (Jazz FO included) didn't.
It's ok to criticize decisions. I'm not gonna say they made all good decisions the last few years, because they didn't.
Joncolton
Well-Known Member
Hi, I used to be on here a few years back. I've just been occasionally reading on here, but not posting. Things are getting exciting again!
I'd have to agree not matching on Wesley Matthews was a huge HUGE error. KOC said his biggest mistake was letting Mo Williams walk away, and that WAS true until he let Wesley Matthews leave. Matthews was the first Jazz shooting guard to compete and be truly effective in Sloan's system since Hornacek. That's about a decade gap at the 2 position, you finally get it filled after 10+ years, and then you let that person walk because he is a little bit expensive?!
IMO, the best thing that KOC ever did (and he did a lot of good things) - was find Dennis Lindsey for his replacement. DL has a plan, and he is working that plan. Quin Snyder is on the same page, and the players are buying in as well. Jazz basketball is starting to become a thing of beauty once again. This is the grueling part of the journey, but for the first time in 3 years there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I'd have to agree not matching on Wesley Matthews was a huge HUGE error. KOC said his biggest mistake was letting Mo Williams walk away, and that WAS true until he let Wesley Matthews leave. Matthews was the first Jazz shooting guard to compete and be truly effective in Sloan's system since Hornacek. That's about a decade gap at the 2 position, you finally get it filled after 10+ years, and then you let that person walk because he is a little bit expensive?!
IMO, the best thing that KOC ever did (and he did a lot of good things) - was find Dennis Lindsey for his replacement. DL has a plan, and he is working that plan. Quin Snyder is on the same page, and the players are buying in as well. Jazz basketball is starting to become a thing of beauty once again. This is the grueling part of the journey, but for the first time in 3 years there is light at the end of the tunnel.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
I disagree with this, though. Utah needed to roll the dice on getting past the first round with Deron's contract coming up. Boozer was about to get paid, and Deron was leaving unless we could make a decent playoff push, IMO. In hindsight we're kind of lucky things worked out like they did. We could have easily paid Deron and Boozer a boatload of money at a time they were both starting to decline. Jefferson was about as good of a gamble as we could have taken, in spite of the fact he was probably never going to work out. If they had let Boozer go without replacing him with someone like AL, Deron would have walked and fans would have been pissed. It didn't work out the way we hoped, but at least the FO made a decent attempt at keeping Deron, even though with Hindsight we're lucky we weren't the ones to give him his next contract.