I am VERY well versed/experienced in astral projection. Successfully practiced it before it started taking control of me and I prayed it off of me. It is very real is all I was trying not to say.
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OK, I would probably agree with you that there are evil, as well as good, issues or realities that "transcend" our ordinary "consciousness" if we define "consciousness" as something that is a tightly-nested personal exercise of our own inherent capacities on a "plane" defined by the physical laws science might explore objectively. . . . the kind of science One Brow would consider valid. . . .
Scripturally-speaking, Satan took Jesus up to a high place and showed Him all the kingdoms of this world, and even offered these kingdoms to Him, on condition that Jesus would worship him (Lucifer, Satan, the devil, or whoever was exhibiting those demonstrated powers of projection). Good you prayed off the evil in your case.
And how would I "know" it was "evil"? I judge by the statement you made about "it started taking control of me" and by the statement "(you) successfully practiced it", which means it was not based on a godly attitude as Jesus exemplified, in refusing to take glory to himself by rather acknowledging His Father in all things. The whole idea of submission/humility in saying "there is none good but God".
Multiple times I had validated that I was visiting another place (by whatever means astral projection makes it a reality).
I did it for years and learned how to do it at will. Then, almost suddenly, I would "leave my body" and being aware of the fact, couldn't get back into my body. I could see myself. I was completely awake and asleep at the same time. My breathing would become labored to almost suffocation. I was trying to wake myself up. I had a live in gf at the time that I would try to muffle just enough audible sound just begging her to shake me awake. It became very scary and came to happen every single night.
I had no idea what was going on. I began asking for help... as much as I knew it would sound totally nuts.
An old Christian guy told me how to pray and ask God to intervene. I did as was instructed and it was the last time it happened to me.
So do I think there was an evil element? Yes. I do believe God could use it for good (and has through others) but to date He has never led me to that cause.
I have a truly incredible story about another guy I know and how it ended for him.. for another time.
In my own opinion, your prayer was heard and answered, as it represented your will and you needed the help, and only God could so intervene. You initially invited an evil entity/influence in, and sorta got hooked on the idea of your own willful way in doing something that required some (evil) assistance but you were sorta being deceived and flattered about how great you were. . . .
So I looked up a link on astral projection, as some have undertaken to be experts on the subject and "practice it". Here is one:
https://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/12/the-dangers-of-astral-projection/
I link this in connection with the links to the story above, with the critical observation that in the case of the first story, I did not observe any attempt to "practice" anything, though I did observe that the context left "God" specifically out of it, and the person conveyed the idea of a reality that specifically did not glorify God, exactly. It's just a statement of what happened as she relates it.
In my opinion, anyone who dabbles in "practice" of this kind is necessarily invoking or conjuring evil as specifically prohibited in the Old Testament, in the command to not seek to speak to the dead, or do soothsaying, witchcraft, or anything like it. It violates the first commandment in a fundamental way. . . .
Is there a "further dimension" to existence? I don't doubt it, but choose to leave it in the hands of God.
Have I "sensed" the presence of specific persons who had already died? yes. Do people have a "core" identity that is not just a mortal body, and does that "core identity" have the power to see, to know the thoughts of others, or their concerns, and to move to other places in an instant? I would suppose so.
If someone told me a story about being able to float themselves around "at will", I would suppose that an entity of some evil nature was behind it, as I would judge it as a demonstration that is self-glorifying, and not subject to God in the manner exemplified by Jesus.
I have no way to verify the facts of the story I cited, but the claim is that there are multiple "proofs" in the story with people who were present and knew the order of events, and could confirm the statements made by the supposedly comatose patient when she "awoke", and in the medical facts of the cancer and it's cure.
Can God heal a person in this manner? It would not be inconsistent with many of the stories of the New Testament healings attributed to Jesus.
One thing I did respond to positively, in her story, is the notion that we do undermine our health with a lot of our "negative" emotional baggage.
Thanks. . . . for bringing me into some consideration of the territory.
Probably, One Brow will find all this just too far off his base of empirical science, evidence, and substantial credibility. . . . Gotta love someone who can just stick to his guns about what he's willing to believe, asking for evidence every step of the way. . . .
some of us might look pretty "unhinged". . . . I suppose. . . .
One short story I can tell without it becoming a tl;dr (at least by some).
This was pretty far into my experience and to date I could simply look around my house while out of my body and see/remember things that I was convinced I wouldn't have paid attention to in my normal conscious state. I would awaken and go check out some small detail to confirm. But that was all earlier on.
Later, I could leave my body and 'go' places and 'see' people. Once I left my body and went to my dad's house. He was about 500 miles away and it was around 2am. When I arrived he was, to my surprise, awake. He was sitting on the fireplace reading that days newspaper. I tried in earnest to make him know I was there, but to no avail. I then peeked over his shoulder to see what article he was reading.
I went back to my body, woke up, and called him immediately.. it was now only about 15 minutes later.
I asked if he was awake. Yes, was his answer. I asked if he had been up reading the paper. He said, yes.. how did you know that (he knew how). I then told him what article he was reading while I was 'there' and he was speechless.
I have a lot more stories, but they get weirder and other-dimension that defies our comprehension and in ways impossible to adequately communicate (and obviously no way of confirming as in the story above).
Consciousness: What is it?
So my little excursion into the topic is actually going back to my discussion with my cousin, and his philosophical if not mathematical extension of Einstein's theory of relativity, wherein he posits that our "consciousness" of the universe represents a corollary principle of physics. . . . that our minds or consciousness have a scientific, demonstrable, and mathematical inter-relation with other things and other observers. We are "conscious" because we are fundamentally "connected" with physical reality. . . .and every other specific "reality".
So I'm looking for "evidence" of further aspects of "our" existence than spatial dimensions, particle constituents having mass, conventional physical energy (like electric charge, potential energy in a gravitational field, E=mv2, chemical bonding, and such), and biological "life" in terms of ordinary demonstrable scientific measures we can obtain with our tools. . .
what is "real", that is beyond our demonstrative powers? What kind of validity do our senses carry when we can't measure it with our equipment/tools?
Lots of times, I've somehow "known" things not in the physical evidence.
So my little excursion into the topic is actually going back to my discussion with my cousin, and his philosophical if not mathematical extension of Einstein's theory of relativity, wherein he posits that our "consciousness" of the universe represents a corollary principle of physics. . . . that our minds or consciousness have a scientific, demonstrable, and mathematical inter-relation with other things and other observers. We are "conscious" because we are fundamentally "connected" with physical reality. . . .and every other specific "reality".
So I'm looking for "evidence" of further aspects of "our" existence than spatial dimensions, particle constituents having mass, conventional physical energy (like electric charge, potential energy in a gravitational field, E=mv2, chemical bonding, and such), and biological "life" in terms of ordinary demonstrable scientific measures we can obtain with our tools. . .
what is "real", that is beyond our demonstrative powers? What kind of validity do our senses carry when we can't measure it with our equipment/tools?
Lots of times, I've somehow "known" things not in the physical evidence.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
PKM.... How were you were getting there? What was the procedure? Because I've not tried to make that happen, but I've felt like that was going to happen when mediating while lying in bed at night trying to fall asleep. It started happening almost every night where I felt like I was battling to keep my spirit grounded. Basically I would get up at that point and watch TV because it scared me, but I'm pretty sure it would have happened had I hung in for a few more seconds. Then I stopped meditating at night.
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and of course, this is why some folks throw out "anecdotal" evidence because it cannot be independently substantiated. . . .as fantastic as it is.
Not to say I don't believe you, but the problem of how to proceed on a scientific basis in this discussion is given by Ambrose Bierce:
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I don't feel comfortable explaining the process I learned to 'make' it happen, but I will say a few things in general.
When 'traveling' I could see the landscape as I was moving, albeit at what seemed like just short of light speed. Meaning, I could barely make out houses and other physical landmarks but was moving so quickly they were barely discernible. Also, I was at times moving through them rather than above them.
I will also say that I could feel something like an electrical current pulsing in my body.. a sound that can only be described as a vibration, just prior to it 'happening.'
If I were still doing it I know I could prove it. Maybe not that I was 'there'.. but I could prove out a way of 'knowing.' I'm just not sure how one could scientifically prove the methodology of knowing.