Lowe: What's real and what's not for the shocking Utah Jazz

[latin jazz]

A good way to start the morning. As always a must read from the best writer in the business:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22417649/zach-lowe-donovan-mitchell-rudy-gobert-utah-jazz

Takeaways:

• Rubio improved play is the key for the Jazz success. His shooting is not sustainable but there seems to be some improvements that are real, like his pace and finishing.
• DM is star but the Jazz don't rely on his scoring to win
• Ingles, O'Neal are real. O'Neal "has played Alec Burks right out of a damn job".
• It seems we are getting Boston Crowder.
• Gobert is a two-way star. His presence changes our defense dramatically and also our offense, as we don't need to rely on 3s as much.
• We need an upgrade at PF. Favors, as most of us assume, is likely gone after the season. He is still not sold on the Favors/Gobert/Rubio trio.

 

[MDAV28]

Great points, especially about the patience and threat of attack by Rubio and Ingles opening up the roll. I will admit, I thought there would be a little more about how the Jazz are using Favors/Gobert together, sounds like Lowe is convinced it just won't work in the long run, though.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

This is my favorite part.

When I last saw the Utah Jazz in person a little over a month ago in Miami, they were surprisingly upbeat for an injury-riddled team about to drop to 16-24 six months after their homegrown star jilted them.

This team is a brotherhood for real. Do the Rox, dubs, or raps have this kind of team chemistry? I'm so excited, haven't been this excited for a team since Stockton hit the three to send the jazz to the NBA finals. The biggest evidence of this teams togetherness is Gobert trusting his front court mate to finish the game because he's playing so well that he literally takes himself out. U just don't see that in to days game.

I love the **** out of this team!!!

 

[Ellipse]

"Ingles, once mocked for looking more like a math teacher than pro basketball player..."

Math teacher? That's a new one. Normally he gets compared to someone you would find at a bar in the shady part of town or under a car at a dirty, mechanic shop.

 

[latin jazz]

"Ingles, once mocked for looking more like a math teacher than pro basketball player..."

Math teacher? That's a new one. Normally he gets compared to someone you would find at a bar in the shady part of town or under a car at a dirty, mechanic shop.

I think he is acknowledging Locke who tweeted:

 

[JohnnyClutch]

I'm not sold on his pessimism regarding the Favs / Gobert combo. I think it works, ESPECIALLY on defense, and you'd have to go a HELL of a long ways -- read: there ain't many -- to find an upgrade to Favors. Not sure if that's laziness (ie, just regurgitating the "common wisdom") or ignorance (ie, not watching enough Jazz games) on his part, but he's flat out wrong. Please keeps Favors.

 

[Sneakers]

Nah this is a running thing dating back at least to Ingles' appearance on the Lowe Post podcast

 

[latin jazz]

I'm not sold on his pessimism regarding the Favs / Gobert combo. I think it works, ESPECIALLY on defense, and you'd have to go a HELL of a long ways -- read: there ain't many -- to find an upgrade to Favors. Not sure if that's laziness (ie, just regurgitating the "common wisdom") or ignorance (ie, not watching enough Jazz games) on his part, but he's flat out wrong. Please keeps Favors.

I would disagree with calling Lowe's take "flat out wrong" and based on "laziness" or "ignorance". From all national writers he watches the Jazz a lot and writes about us every few weeks or months.

The Favors/Gobert is a legitimate debate to be had. It's been almost 4 years. Sometimes it's looks amazing on defense and ok on offense. With the arrival of Rubio it was unwatchable at the beginning of the season. Until two weeks ago we seemed poised to dump Favors and acquire Mirotic, arguably a better fit in Quin's system. The decision seemed clear for the Jazz front office. Right now the pair is clicking but it's legitimate to wonder if this is sustainable in the long term. Also, Favors staying is not entirely on the Jazz. As Tony Jones pointed out yesterday, Favors will look to get paid and be a starter. He also seems to want a change a scenery. Him coming back is a big "if".

 

[latin jazz]

Nah this is a running thing dating back at least to Ingles' appearance on the Lowe Post podcast

Oh yeah, I think you are right

 

[JohnnyClutch]

I explained what I meant by those words. Find some similes if you like.

"Until two weeks ago we seemed poised to dump Favors and acquire Mirotic, arguably a better fit in Quin's system."

That's what I was referring to by the common wisdom comment. They've needed a point guard (playing well) to make it work on offense. They've now got 3. Neto is killing it too.

"Also, Favors staying is not entirely on the Jazz. As Tony Jones pointed out yesterday, Favors will look to get paid and be a starter. He also seems to want a change a scenery. Him coming back is a big "if"."

Agreed.. hence the "please keep Favors" part.

 

[infection]

I would disagree with calling Lowe's take "flat out wrong" and based on "laziness" or "ignorance". From all national writers he watches the Jazz a lot and writes about us every few weeks or months.

The Favors/Gobert is a legitimate debate to be had. It's been almost 4 years. Sometimes it's looks amazing on defense and ok on offense. With the arrival of Rubio it was unwatchable at the beginning of the season. Until two weeks ago we seemed poised to dump Favors and acquire Mirotic, arguably a better fit in Quin's system. The decision seemed clear for the Jazz front office. Right now the pair is clicking but it's legitimate to wonder if this is sustainable in the long term. Also, Favors staying is not entirely on the Jazz. As Tony Jones pointed out yesterday, Favors will look to get paid and be a starter. He also seems to want a change a scenery. Him coming back is a big "if".

This. I've consistently said that people are way too influenced by 'the past few games,' regardless of where we are in the season. For the longest time I was a huge Favors/Gobert supporter, but that was based mostly on our Hayward team. We had pretty good offensive options with triple H (Hayward, Hood, and Hill) and replicating that run a couple years ago with Gobert and Favors was what I envisioned, but nobody could be healthy. Now triple H is all gone. I've been the last person on the stretch four bandwagon but the way our pieces fit as presently constituted, a real stretch four is an absolute must. Favors is a better option than just a token stretch four, or playing some wing at 4 who doesn't rebound, but a stretch four who legitimately puts up 15 and gets up 5 threes a game and doesn't kill you on the glass is exactly what we need, but there just aren't a lot of those guys available. The reasons for my Mirotic fascination is because he fits the criteria and he's -- quite literally -- the only one we can (could) get. So it really comes down to whether or not we can land a legitimate stretch 4. If we can, we have to take it. If not, may as well look in to a Favors possibility, but there are flaws there that will be magnified by our current situation that I think would have been mitigated in our previous circumstances (with Triple H).

 

[MDAV28]

I would disagree with calling Lowe's take "flat out wrong" and based on "laziness" or "ignorance". From all national writers he watches the Jazz a lot and writes about us every few weeks or months.

The Favors/Gobert is a legitimate debate to be had. It's been almost 4 years. Sometimes it's looks amazing on defense and ok on offense. With the arrival of Rubio it was unwatchable at the beginning of the season. Until two weeks ago we seemed poised to dump Favors and acquire Mirotic, arguably a better fit in Quin's system. The decision seemed clear for the Jazz front office. Right now the pair is clicking but it's legitimate to wonder if this is sustainable in the long term. Also, Favors staying is not entirely on the Jazz. As Tony Jones pointed out yesterday, Favors will look to get paid and be a starter. He also seems to want a change a scenery. Him coming back is a big "if".

You make a lot of good points but I just want to point out the net ratings of the Favors/Gobert duo.

17/18: 471 min - +2.8 net rating
16/17: 541 min - +10.7 net rating
15/16: 882 min - +4.2 net rating
14/15: 857 min - +4.7 net rating

So in the 2700+ minutes they have played together their net rating is probably around +5.4.

This is not to say that a stretch 4 would not be good or better, but Favors and Gobert together has coexisted and can coexist it seems. Even if it is ugly, it is still overall positive. I'm on the resign Favors bandwagon.

 

[latin jazz]

I explained what I meant by those words. Find some similes if you like.

"Until two weeks ago we seemed poised to dump Favors and acquire Mirotic, arguably a better fit in Quin's system."

That's what I was referring to by the common wisdom comment. They've needed a point guard (playing well) to make it work on offense. They've now got 3. Neto is killing it too.

With Rubio shooting and playing like this, yeah, it works. And Rubio's play is one of the main points of Lowe's article. Maybe Lowe needed to dig a little bit on whether the duo could work in the long term with DM (or with this hot shooting Rubio). But he assumes Favors will be gone.

Unfortunately Favors was injured last year, just when the pair was surrounded with excellent shooting. It was a missed opportunity for the front office to asses the duo.

I like Derrick and it will be difficult to replace him. But he is likely gone.

 

[latin jazz]

You make a lot of good points but I just want to point out the net ratings of the Favors/Gobert duo.

This is not to say that a stretch 4 would not be good or better, but Favors and Gobert together has coexisted and can coexist it seems. Even if it is ugly, it is still overall positive. I'm on the resign Favors bandwagon.

Thanks for the info. No doubt they can coexist when surrounded by the right players. Ideal? Maybe not. As you mentioned, the point is whether or not there are players who could be a better fit in our system, helping us to reach a new level both offensively and defensively.

I would love to have him back at the right price/role. But it's a long shot for both parties.

 

[David Stern]

I’ve noticed that it seems like Favors is taking more mid-range jump shots during this streak, specifically from around the free-throw line. He’s making those shots pretty regularly and looks comfortable doing so.

I think if he doesn’t resign, we’re going to trade for Niko and call it an offseason. I’d assume Burks for Niko straight up would entice the Pelicans, considering they desperately need wing players.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[hgb]

I’ve noticed that it seems like Favors is taking more mid-range jump shots during this streak, specifically from around the free-throw line. He’s making those shots pretty regularly and looks comfortable doing so.

Favors from the free throw line or thereabouts (preferably straight on, not on either side) in rhythm is a solid shot, IMHO. Not so much if he's not in rhythm.

 

[latin jazz]

I’ve noticed that it seems like Favors is taking more mid-range jump shots during this streak, specifically from around the free-throw line. He’s making those shots pretty regularly and looks comfortable doing so.

I think if he doesn’t resign, we’re going to trade for Niko and call it an offseason. I’d assume Burks for Niko straight up would entice the Pelicans, considering they desperately need wing players.

Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

I see us trading for Niko as well. They are worried about the tax so I assume they will target one of our non-guaranteed deals plus a filler (Jerebko+Thabo maybe?).

Regarding Thabo. I know the Jazz loves him. But do you guys think he has become redundant now that Crowder is on the roster? If Favors leaves and we don't make a move, then he could have a role next year. But long term we still need a playmaking 4.

 

[infection]

I see us trading for Niko as well. They are worried about the tax so I assume they will target one of our non-guaranteed deals plus a filler (Jerebko+Thabo maybe?).

Regarding Thabo. I know the Jazz loves him. But do you guys think he has become redundant now that Crowder is on the roster? If Favors leaves and we don't make a move, then he could have a role next year.

Yeah, Burks makes no sense as the reason they'd deal Mirotic would be to clear salary. Not sure they do it otherwise. Only way Burks makes sense is if we trade our pick. But I'd reluctantly deal Jerebko and Thabo. However, the rules that preclude you from signing people you've traded or waived apply to the "same season," which is defined as the start of the first game and the day of your last game, so I'm curious how that plays out over the summer, if it's a loophole? If so, I'd tell the agents of both Jerebko and Thabo that "we valued them at x (their non-guaranteed salary) before and we still value them at x, maybe a little more" and I'd bring them both back. We'd still need a backup four and I'm not sure Thabo would have a hotter (financial) market coming off surgery. I wouldn't see any other targets for us to go after either and would have those guys on another 1+1 deal.

But long term we still need a playmaking 4.

 

[MDAV28]

Thanks for the info. No doubt they can coexist when surrounded by the right players. Ideal? Maybe not. As you mentioned, the point is whether or not there are players who could be a better fit in our system, helping us to reach a new level both offensively and defensively.

I would love to have him back at the right price/role. But it's a long shot for both parties.

I mean the point is they have been surrounded by a wide range of players and have been a positive duo together. There is an absolute tradeoff with a stretch 4 (which I mean having a stretch 4 and still having Favors is obviously the idea). The defense will almost certainly not be "reaching a new level" as any stretch 4 that can provide great defense are few and far between. As far as I'm concerned, reaching a new level for this team is basically just acquiring another star, not changing our front court because that is clearly not the problem.

Sure price determines everything, but I don't really see it as a long shot at all.

 

[mellow]

Major fail: The so called "Nashing" was mastered by this guy....

who would drive baseline just to get the defenders heads turned. Sometimes he just dribbled all the way through. But if the defense looked away from Karl, the play ended in a dunk. If they looked away from John he would flip it up quickly.

"Nashing" bah humbug. Know your history!