Game Thread Mar 05, 2023 05:00PM MT: Jazz at Thunder
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Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
The reality of the tank hasn't had time to really sink in yet. But it will. Lauri didn't look at all happy in the last game he played in. To me he looked like a guy thinking "I can't believe this ****, it's me and a bunch of G-League scrubs".
People are straight up deceiving themselves if they think he's gonna accept a full tanking season next year after this **** show. I get that he's apparently the ultimate team guy or something, but for the first time in his career he's now in a position where he can really control his own destiny. No All Star is gonna waste his absolute prime toiling away on a tanking team.
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HermanG
Well-Known Member
Also anyone arguing we are gonna tank next season is equally delusional.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
This is not just a Lauri problem, it's a team building problem. I thought you armchair GM's were experts at this ****.
Renegotiate & extend won't help with a guy like Markkanen if you have no tangible hope to offer. Lauri knows his next contract will be huge anyway, no matter where he gets it. He'll be 26 in a few months, never been to the playoffs. The bottom line is, he'll want to win ASAP. As I pointed out earlier, the decision to start a late tank separated Lauri's timeline from the team's. That's the big story here. This is why teams who have a prime All Star on the roster never voluntarily start to tank. It's basically unheard of. You're wasting extremely valuable years.
Some people are saying we'll be gunning for the playoffs as early as next season. I think that's a load of BS. It's overwhelmingly likely the guy(s) we draft won't make any difference in the wins column for a while, even if we end up picking near the top. Either Ainge makes some big win-now moves in the offseason or we'll be tanking again.
IMO, the latter option means that Markkanen gets traded next season for a king's ransom, turning him into a bunch of younger assets, and the Jazz settle in for a real multiyear tank, Houston and OKC style. Scorched earth, mothe****er. I can absolutely see Ainge doing that. There's no loyalty, no history. Both guys just got to Utah.
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Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Oh. Half this board seems to be absolutely certain that's exactly what's going to happen.
If Ainge whiffs in the draft, the only way to avoid a longer tank is to dig into that war chest of assets in the offseason and get several good players around Lauri. (That may be required anyway. As I pointed out earlier, this draft doesn't have many sure things who'll make an immediate impact on the NBA level.)
But as we all know, that may be much easier said than done. Free agents aren't lining up to play in Utah for a rebuilding team and we have very little talent to trade.
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HermanG
Well-Known Member
Quite honestly, I know @Thee Idiotic Minivan K keeps saying we should tank next year as well, but I dont see many others being on that train.
Besides the FO already said they are looking to dig into the war chest. Its not "to potentially save a bad draft", its "in addition to whoever we draft". I think they wont rush it though and they feel like there is a really good window to improve current iteration in the next 18 months during which they will be very active in discussing potential imapct pieces coming in.
Next season is likely gonna be a season where we really aim for the playoffs but its still build up season at the same time as you dont just turn from a lottery team into a contender overnight.
Korisfani
Guest
Because the only thing the Jazz can do is make an offer. And Lauri can do whatever he damn well pleases and go wherever he wants to. Calling him a moron if he simply doesn't sign where he can get the most money just shows how out of it you are.
And for the "it's only 15 games!" crowd: Ainge might make some major moves in the summer. Much more probable he doesn't. Then it's three new rookies, JC quite possibly out and a couple of vets of the FA scrap heap. Now, record-wise that's a much worse team than this year's.
I believe Jazz with the recent trade threw any hopes for play-offs this year or next year. I believe this year Ainge decided is best to tank for the rest of the season, next season the team very likely will get the green light to go for play-offs, but with a a team with many rookies and sophomores that sounds like a forlorn hope.
Lauri has had a blast so far with Jazz. There is no other way to see it, he absolutely has loved to be in the team, and thanks to Jazz he has reached the other one of his NBA goals (get nominated an All Star). His other NBA goal is to be in a team which wins it all.
He has said already years ago he already has made more money than he will be able to spend, but he has also stated in the NBA (and in USA in general) how big a contract a player has shows how much a player is respected. If 18 months from now Jazz are offering him big money, but the team has just been left out of play-offs again with no light to be seen at the end of the tunnel, well... I don't think he would sign an extension there and then.
Lauri is a very traditional Finn in many ways. I believe there is absolutely zero chance he would ask to be traded; that would just be against his very core. But neither will he sign a big extension just because it means big money, that is not what he is looking for. I believe he will rather play out his current contract, and then see where the Jazz are as an organisation. If it looks like Jazz is a serious contender (get to the WCF in 2025 for example), then he would love to stay; if not, well, at least he did the honorable thing and did stay with the organisation.
As for Jazz, I don't believe they would be willing to just let Lauri play his current contract, and then walk for nothing. Remains to be seen if Jazz intends to be a true contender after next season, or if they intend to cash in on Lauri (trading him for a haul), and set the aim to be a contender later on.
Lauri has had a blast so far with Jazz. There is no other way to see it, he absolutely has loved to be in the team, and thanks to Jazz he has reached the other one of his NBA goals (get nominated an All Star). His other NBA goal is to be in a team which wins it all.
He has said already years ago he already has made more money than he will be able to spend, but he has also stated in the NBA (and in USA in general) how big a contract a player has shows how much a player is respected. If 18 months from now Jazz are offering him big money, but the team has just been left out of play-offs again with no light to be seen at the end of the tunnel, well... I don't think he would sign an extension there and then.
Lauri is a very traditional Finn in many ways. I believe there is absolutely zero chance he would ask to be traded; that would just be against his very core. But neither will he sign a big extension just because it means big money, that is not what he is looking for. I believe he will rather play out his current contract, and then see where the Jazz are as an organisation. If it looks like Jazz is a serious contender (get to the WCF in 2025 for example), then he would love to stay; if not, well, at least he did the honorable thing and did stay with the organisation.
As for Jazz, I don't believe they would be willing to just let Lauri play his current contract, and then walk for nothing. Remains to be seen if Jazz intends to be a true contender after next season, or if they intend to cash in on Lauri (trading him for a haul), and set the aim to be a contender later on.
It's not very likely that Lauri asks a trade, but it's also good to remember that he has already done that once in Chicago.
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10009793-lauri-markkanen-wants-to-leave-bulls-in-free-agency-has-offers-from-several-teams
Very possible that we could be worst next year. We lost a locker room leader in Conley and we are about to lose another one in Clarkson. KO might be gone too. Everything now lies on what FO will do with those picks and cap space. So wait and see.
As for lauri I'm pretty sure FO know his timeline. But keep in mind this isn't the 90s where you can easily win a ring just by joining the bulls. You can form a super team today but still won't win it all. It's not easy.
As you can see in the article, Lauri didn't ask for a trade, but did inform the Bulls he wants to leave in free-agency. Quite the difference from asking for a trade during a contract.
Korisfani
Guest
I don't think Lauri is in "I just want one ring and I'm good" mindset. At all. He's 25, not some 32yo that's come up short in the playoffs on multiple teams. At this point it's much more a) making the playoffs and b) being able to contend in the playoffs - and realistically being able to do that for the remainder of his time. The league has 30 teams and every season at least 6 teams that are championship favorites, so obviously there are no guarantees of a ring anywhere.
The RFA situation is different of course, but the Bulls still had the opportunity to match. And the market for Lauri was very soft and his agent seemed to overplay his hand. So, he did tell the Bulls that if they match and intend for him to return, he's not doing it. Not some Kyrie-level ****, but still showed that he won't just bend to the team.
The RFA situation is different of course, but the Bulls still had the opportunity to match. And the market for Lauri was very soft and his agent seemed to overplay his hand. So, he did tell the Bulls that if they match and intend for him to return, he's not doing it. Not some Kyrie-level ****, but still showed that he won't just bend to the team.
Korisfani
Guest
But what's happened this season dictates much of next season.
I think we can all agree this current team is not good. If this had been the team the whole season, snowballs chance in hell of the playoffs not good. Insert three rookies, take out 10-day guys etc. Maybe take out JC. Insert some mid-level FA or other. That team is not good, right? Unless multiple players take big leaps it might be dreadful.
And of course Ainge can do something big in the summer. Will he? Doubtful.
I can see a future where next year's team can be ruled out of real playoff contention in November.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
There is 100% no reason to make the playoffs, we have Markkanen Kessler and Agbaji and that’s basically it. We still need to build a roster. The jazz old way of doing things doesn’t work. Be bad for a year or two then spend money. Yes, we are good but good doesn’t get you anywhere. Imagine if we would’ve tanked Mitchell’s rookie year and added more. We don’t want to be good, we want to be great we want to compete for titles, have 15-20 nationally televised games, play on Christmas day, play for a championship. If we make the playoffs next year. We will be in the same purgatory we’ve been in since after 1998.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m tired of it and I will do whatever it takes to be championship worthy. What exactly are the jazz going to do next year anyways. Agbaji is slowly getting better, Kessler is getting better, and Markkanen is still progressing as the leader of the team.
JC should be gone, Gay, gone, it should be the core 3 next year and whoever we draft wether that’s 2-3-4 new rookies that need to progress and get better. The jazz aren’t going anywhere. They may as well have a top ten pick next year.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Seek help.
Don't forget about Chet
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
The way I see it if we need to trade Lauri… I’m fine with it as long as it’s a haul of unprotected picks and prospects. We need to tank the right way. We can’t be half assing it.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
What has Lauri's NBA career been up to this point? Was he in amazing situations? Was he a #1 guy all star and most improved player? These deep dives into his psyche are hilarious.
And no way we tank next year. It is a bad draft and we owe the Thunder a top 10 protected pick. We want that pick to convey and get it off the books.