GVC
Well-Known Member
It's the first, so it must be the best...Prohibitionists talking about the dangers of the prohibited substance. At least it's a steady paycheck.
Marijuana: Facts, Myths, and plain old Stupidity.
- Thread starter TroutBum
- Start date
Are you disputing the citation?
Or do you know of a different study?
Fact: It's been a while since I was a teen, but I grew up in Maryland and not only did I never try marijuana, but 0% of my friends ever tried it (that I know of, of course). It doesn't surprise me at all to learn that most teens are not users. Why does it surprise you so much?
GVC
Well-Known Member
Like log, you seem to be valuing conformity over justice.
Who gets to make that determination? For now, the oligarchs and prohibitionists with their access to the media, schools and lawmakers. It has nothing to do with someone agreeing or disagreeing with me, it has to do with rational policy that respects personal liberties. The law shouldn't punish those who aren't hurting anyone. Is that so hard to understand?
And that's the point: No one made me God. We can't rely on some invisible man in the sky to tell us what the policy should be. We can examine the facts to the best of our ability, and make policy decisions that don't strip people of their basic liberties without cause.
GVC
Well-Known Member
I'm disputing the scientific value of the website. It's pure propaganda.
edit: And to your earlier question, I've already linked to a pdf (from anti-prohibitionists, so take it for what it its) citing numerous independent peer-reviewed papers. The overwhelming majority of the literature doesn't support the assertion that driving while high is as bad as driving while drunk. It's absolutely absurd.
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billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I do ice cream every now and then. I'm comfortable with the risks. If they made ice cream illegal, I probably wouldn't get myself arrested eating ice cream. But I'd find it. And I'd eat it as I waited for the crazy world to figure out I'm just eating ice cream over here.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Take a look at the site, and then do a quick search on any number of academic databases for articles about the topics they're pretending to know something about. Is the NIH even trying to be fair? Are they purposely misleading people? Would that be appropriate for a government agency to do? In the name of science?
GVC
Well-Known Member
1. Historical inertia.
2. HUGE resources devoted to government propaganda.
3. A relatively small number of people are affected by the law (albeit at an extremely steep price to the tax payer).
These things matter. Democracy isn't some terminal point, it's something that's worked at.
GVC
Well-Known Member
I've yet to see a single sensible argument why cannabis should be illegal. No one's even tried to make one in this thread. I'm just reacting to the "civil disobedience is always bad" mantra. Like I said, I have trouble respecting people who value conformity over justice. I'm all for a discussion about the merits of cannabis prohibition.
Which NO ONE has said. Nice straw man there.
In fact, I specifically said it's idiotic to equate drug use with the Civil Rights movement. Clearly I do feel that there have been occasions where civil disobedience has been called for.
And I have trouble respecting people who think they are the sole arbiters of justice. So I guess we're even.
(from the previous post)
Here's the issue: I would have no problem if you were saying "Due to the historical inertia and propaganda, no serious studies have been done to see if marijuana use is harmful on an individual and on a societal basis. Therefore we should do some, and change our laws if the studies find marijuana use to do more good than harm."
But that's not at all what you are saying. What you are saying more closely approximates, "I like smoking marijuana. Therefore everyone who says it is bad must be mistaken. I should keep doing whatever I like regardless of what opinion the medical, police, and legal communities have to say about it."
If my view is conformity, then your view is anarchy.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Is there really anyone who thinks there is an appreciable difference between beer and marijuana? I mean, the whole idea that marijuana should be illegal while Popov Vodka in plastic bottles is legal is totally absurd.
GVC
Well-Known Member
That is what I'm saying. You see, people have been citing research (in this thread and others), and it overwhelmingly comes down on the side of prohibition not working.
Yes, I enjoy cannabis, and, as far as the research says and I can tell, it's providing me with a lot more positive utility than negative utility, and hurting no one else. Saying something is "bad" is meaningless, irrelevant, and thus obviously not reason enough to make something criminal, and ruin people's lives over.
When people are arrested for illegal but perfectly reasonable religious observances, do you also think they should have known better?
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D
Deleted member 848
Guest
BC beat you to it. Western Canada is absolutely full of weed, we get it all through BC for the most part. What I meant with my original post is that I'm from like a weed-prevalent area, yet i still haven't touched the stuff. I've just sorta avoided it throughout my early years; given, Im still a youngin'
EDIT: Thank you, GVC. ill try to make my posts less cryptic from here on.
GVC
Well-Known Member
I'm having trouble getting free access to the article you cited (in Behavioral Pharmacology), but read the abstract they provide on their website. The relevant assertion they make is that the effect of smoking one whole marijuana cigarette (3.96% THC) on brake latency and equilibrium is equal to that of someone with a BAC of .05 driving at the same speed. That's not really a meaningful comparison, since .05 BAC is well below the legal limit AND cannabis use tends to reduce while alcohol use tends to increase driving speeds (per some of the other studies cited in this thread). Also, most people who haven't built up a resistance to THC wouldn't smoke a whole joint and then go out driving at 60 mph. Minor details.
From the NIDA website:
From the NIDA website:
If that's not purposely misleading, I don't know what is.
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prodigal punk
Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
Ridiculous, right? Your tax dollars at work.
I'm in Toronto now. Come visit. I have no friends.