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Mitchell injury

I'm just here wondering how someone stayed 70 years old for 4 years, but also agree with all your points.

The human mind doesn't even finish development until age 25 I do find it interesting how much criticism Mitchell receives from the same fans that excused a child as president and infact enabled him and encouraged his childish behavior.

I do not expect Mitchell to stay with the Jazz because of the crazy fans. I see the same crap in every jazz comment section and I know Mitchell sees it to.

It's too bad, because Mitchell is honestly a really good dude. Maybe a bit overbearing in his leadership role, but overall a good honest player and one of the best people to put on a jazz uniform.

Even if he handles some situations with immaturity.

I'm a 39 year old man... I still handle some issues with immaturity. Probably always will...

It's part of the human condition.

I also work jazz games for tv production and do get to see a fair amount of behind the scenes interaction. The gobert/Mitchell situation was completely overblown by fans and the media.

I feel like this situation is also getting overblown.

I have a hard time faulting a player for wanting to play even if the medical staff disagreed. Can't imagine I'd be happy either in that situation if I want to play, but... Leave it to fans and the media to blow it out of proportion.

Just realize, most national media would love nothing more than to see Mitchell anywhere else except Utah.
He'll be gone because he/his team don't want him here. Crazy fans exist. He will go to a fanbase that chanted "**** Trae Young" an entire game and booed Carmelo after he chose to go there, so save me on the fan drama because he's going to choose to end up in NY with the harshest fans and media in the league. And no I don't think the national media is pushing this with no source, and that source is his people. There's a reason the leaks get out when its HIM upset, because the leaks are coming from HIM.
 
Bryant’s version of the events differed from the accuser’s. He was questioned by police at around 11:30 p.m. the day after the alleged sexual assault at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera.

“Um, she showed me around the pool, showing me around, um, we went to my room, she showed me the back view where the bears come up to the window, and that’s about ****ing it, we shot the **** and that was it,” Bryant told police. He then denied three times that anything had happened with the woman to police, and when informed that the accuser had made an allegation of sexual assault against him, told the officers, “Is there any way I can settle this whatever it is, I mean…?” asked Bryant. “If my wife, if my wife found out that anybody made any type of allegations against me, she would be infuriated.”

When police informed him that the accuser had submitted to a physical exam and they’d taken semen and blood evidence from her person, Bryant admitted that the two had sex. “Uh, this is what I need to know because uh, I did have sexual intercourse with her,” said Bryant, adding, “It was totally consensual.”

Bryant told the officers that when he and the accuser got back to the room, she showed him her back tattoo and then kissed him, and they began to kiss. When the officers asked Bryant whether she said no or resisted, Bryant replied, “OK. I’m thinking, I’m thinking, I’m thinking. (Pause.) I’m trying to think of the conversation we had.”

He admitted that he “held [the accuser] from the back” and that the sex lasted “about five minutes.”

The officers then asked Bryant, “Did you ever ask her if you wanted, if you could *** in her face?” “Yes,” Bryant replied, adding, “That’s when she said no. That’s when she said no. That’s when she said no.”

Bryant contended that the woman gave him oral sex for approximately “five seconds” prior to the sex, and that everything was “consensual.”

At one point, when police described the accuser as “attractive,” Bryant corrected them. “She wasn’t that attractive,” said Bryant. Then, when officers asked him about “finishing,” he replied, “I didn’t finish a ****ing thing,” adding, “I jerked off when she left.” When asked by officers if he’d ever cheated on his wife before, Bryant replied, “Um, yes, with one other person. And she could actually testify I do that um, I do the same thing, I hold her from the back, I put my hands (inaudible).”

“Her name is Michelle,” continued Bryant, adding she’s a “frequent” partner of his.

Police then inform Bryant that the accuser “has a bruise on her neck,” to which he replied, “Yeah I mean that’s you know me and Michelle, that’s what we, we do the same thing,” said Bryant. When officers ask Bryant how often he has sex with “Michelle,” he replies, “A lot. She’ll tell you the same ****.”

Absolute role model and great guy. He’s lucky this happened in 2003 and not in today’s world.
 
Absolute role model and great guy. He’s lucky this happened in 2003 and not in today’s world.
And this isn’t even the report that included her confirmed injuries.

Kobe seems to have become a better person with time, but that would be easy to do since he was an abject monster.

I shudder at the adulation he continues to get, and because he died prematurely will be further lionized.
 
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Eh... reading the transcript of the interview with Kobe when the detectives went to his hotel room the night he allegedly raped the girl, I would be surprised if it wasn't consensual. Kobe's answers gave me the impression he was shocked and shaken up over the accusation. He was quick to offer super specific details, and was openly wondering why the girl would lie about it.

Not that that constitues solid proof, obviously, but I don't blame anybody for believing he's innocent.
Yeah so being married meant nothing, still a wonderful family man. And you know, if Kobe asks, Kobe gets, so of course To him everything is consensual, since Kobe's request implies consent. If course, if she doesn't scream the word "rape" 3 times in quick succession, exactly 3, not 2, then of course it isn't rape, right? More dark-gray area in that case than in a hurricane.

But according to the true Lakers fans it isn't gray area, it's white as the driven snow. Kobe got railroaded by a gold-digging whore, plain and simple.

So don't underestimate the chosen fan-base's ability to swallow any and all **** given them by their Chosen One's.
 
And this isn’t even the report that included her confirmed injuries.

Kobe seems to have become a better person with time, but that would be easy to do since he was an abject monster.

I shudder at the adulation he continues to get, and because he died prematurely will be further lionized, despite the above and that he was one of the most toxic and selfish players ever documented.

All of this. Couldn’t have said it any better.
 
Yeah so being married meant nothing, still a wonderful family man. And you know, if Kobe asks, Kobe gets, so of course To him everything is consensual, since Kobe's request implies consent. If course, if she doesn't scream the word "rape" 3 times in quick succession, exactly 3, not 2, then of course it isn't rape, right? More dark-gray area in that case than in a hurricane.

But according to the true Lakers fans it isn't gray area, it's white as the driven snow. Kobe got railroaded by a gold-digging whore, plain and simple.

So don't underestimate the chosen fan-base's ability to swallow any and all **** given them by their Chosen One's.
First off, there's a world of difference between adultery and rape. I personally believe the former is redeemable (although not easily), and the latter is not.

Secondly, it sounds like you're guilty of what you're accusing Lakers fans of doing - making up their minds on the rape accusations without actually knowing the truth.
 
I see no one here has had to deal with many 24-year-olds in their lives, or they are in denial about themselves at 24. Very very few people are any kind of mature by their mid-twenties. Hell I was deep in my college career, and had a wife and 2 kids at 24 but I can fully admit I was still in many ways a child. Maturity at that age is really the exception, not the rule. They still need to be called on it and held accountable, but it is anything but out of the ordinary.

Hell as a manager I've dealt with thousands of different people of different ages over my 20 year career and I find people of all ages still act like children in many situations.

Hell, we just had a 70-year-old child as president for 4 years.
I agree with what you are saying and I have had the same experiences but what I do not understand so much is why this is such a big deal. DM reaction is very human like especially for a competitive athlete. He was expecting to play and then told at the last minute he wasn't going to play even though he said he had no pain in his ankle. He practiced for 3 straight days according to the reports so what reaction would you expect. What if DM said, OK guys I am going to sit this one out even though I am not feeling any pain. IF he had done that you could just IMAGINE the outrage that would have occurred. Yet he wanted to play and said he was ready so you are mad because he got mad that he couldn't play. Geez your standards are pretty low for determining Diva behavior.

I wanted him to play and was upset he didn't. You have to look at the situation and say was his reaction over the top? In my opinion it wasn't even close and it was only made worse because of the social media/media machine beating the drums of discontent. The internet has become the place where people whine/show outrage over nonsense. There are plenty of things to complain about that need attention in our society. This isn't one of them.
 
And this isn’t even the report that included her confirmed injuries.

Kobe seems to have become a better person with time, but that would be easy to do since he was an abject monster.

I shudder at the adulation he continues to get, and because he died prematurely will be further lionized.
Derrick Rose too... obvi a much lesser degree with the adulation. Every time they talk about what a "great comeback story" it is I just think... I guess we flat out ignore the sexual assault with him.

Some seriously gross stuff goes on with some of these dudes... makes me appreciate our guys a bit more.
 
First off, there's a world of difference between adultery and rape. I personally believe the former is redeemable (although not easily), and the latter is not.

Secondly, it sounds like you're guilty of what you're accusing Lakers fans of doing - making up their minds on the rape accusations without actually knowing the truth.
You're right. On the one hand, there's someone who was raped and on the other, the rapist was Kobe Bryant who changes his story multiple times, first refusing to admit he had sex with her, then when he knew he couldn't say that any longer, couldn't keep his story straight.

I'd love to know your thoughts on Derrick Rose's innocence.
 
Imagine if you are the Jazz medical staff and you only get very very limited access to Donovan. You are told that Donovan has improved greatly and looks fine. Doctors are arrogant and they would feel dissed. They would say NO we want to see him one more day under stress. I think that is what happened. Both camps just don't talk and this the result. Egos rule the day.
 
Imagine if you are the Jazz medical staff and you only get very very limited access to Donovan. You are told that Donovan has improved greatly and looks fine. Doctors are arrogant and they would feel dissed. They would say NO we want to see him one more day under stress. I think that is what happened. Both camps just don't talk and this the result. Egos rule the day.
Not how it happened at all. They would have seen him in practice three times if nothing else. His trainers were working with Jazz staff. They were talking.
 
You're right. On the one hand, there's someone who was raped and on the other, the rapist was Kobe Bryant who changes his story multiple times, first refusing to admit he had sex with her, then when he knew he couldn't say that any longer, couldn't keep his story straight.

I'd love to know your thoughts on Derrick Rose's innocence.
My thoughts are that I don't actually know what happened anymore than you do, and only one of us is pretending to know all the facts.
 
Derrick Rose too... obvi a much lesser degree with the adulation. Every time they talk about what a "great comeback story" it is I just think... I guess we flat out ignore the sexual assault with him.

Some seriously gross stuff goes on with some of these dudes... makes me appreciate our guys a bit more.
Our guys build pillow forts.
 
Yeah so being married meant nothing, still a wonderful family man. And you know, if Kobe asks, Kobe gets, so of course To him everything is consensual, since Kobe's request implies consent. If course, if she doesn't scream the word "rape" 3 times in quick succession, exactly 3, not 2, then of course it isn't rape, right? More dark-gray area in that case than in a hurricane.

But according to the true Lakers fans it isn't gray area, it's white as the driven snow. Kobe got railroaded by a gold-digging whore, plain and simple.

So don't underestimate the chosen fan-base's ability to swallow any and all **** given them by their Chosen One's.
Outside of everything else, he tried to bribe the cops.
 
First off, there's a world of difference between adultery and rape. I personally believe the former is redeemable (although not easily), and the latter is not.

Secondly, it sounds like you're guilty of what you're accusing Lakers fans of doing - making up their minds on the rape accusations without actually knowing the truth.
No one knows the truth so I side with the person with no power, the woman.
 
I agree with what you are saying and I have had the same experiences but what I do not understand so much is why this is such a big deal. DM reaction is very human like especially for a competitive athlete. He was expecting to play and then told at the last minute he wasn't going to play even though he said he had no pain in his ankle. He practiced for 3 straight days according to the reports so what reaction would you expect. What if DM said, OK guys I am going to sit this one out even though I am not feeling any pain. IF he had done that you could just IMAGINE the outrage that would have occurred. Yet he wanted to play and said he was ready so you are mad because he got mad that he couldn't play. Geez your standards are pretty low for determining Diva behavior.

I wanted him to play and was upset he didn't. You have to look at the situation and say was his reaction over the top? In my opinion it wasn't even close and it was only made worse because of the social media/media machine beating the drums of discontent. The internet has become the place where people whine/show outrage over nonsense. There are plenty of things to complain about that need attention in our society. This isn't one of them.
You have encompassed my opinion on the matter as well. I was responding to the comments about other fan bases supposedly caring or not caring about players being divas and the like.
 
If this is how you operate, why didn't you side with Elijah Millsap in the DL accusations?
So you have a single template for every scenario you ever encounter so you can be black and white on every issue?
 
So you have a single template for every scenario you ever encounter so you can be black and white on every issue?
... are you projecting here?

You literally said "No one knows the truth so I side with the person with no power, the woman.".

You're literally doing what you've just now accused me of doing. You seem to have a habit of this - you also accused other people of making up their minds already on the Kobe accusations despite the fact that you'd done the exact same.

Think about it.
 
Raja Bell on The Ringer podcast: "Donovan's coming out and making it public. That doesn't have to be anything anyone has to know, even if you are frustrated like Donovan. If you really care about that organization and your relationship is really healthy.......It doesn't come out, even if you are upset and it got ****ed up"
 
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