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Move On From Hayward?

LoPo said:
I understand I'm new here. I also see now that I'm the only one who thinks Barnes is a good NBA starter at 3 years in the league and 24 years old. I also see that some people think that Hayward is the 2nd coming of Scottie Pippen. This same guy could simply walk away this time next year with us having no Barnes or even 40 year old Raja Bell for that matter.

I try to create solutions before we screw ourselves. It's what I do. I was all in on the Wes Matthews deal although Utah fans discounted his worth and applauded the Raja Bell move. I thought we should have traded AK over 2 years before his contract ran out because he had more value in a trade than to Utah and we needed a pure wing at the time. I wanted to trade Boozer before losing him for just an exception. I called the Deron Williams trade because it got us something instead of losing him for nothing. I'm okay with guys like CJ Miles because they are role players. I'd rather pay an inconsistent guy like that $4 a year than an inconsistent injury concern like Alec Burks more than double that. I think Lyles is the future of our post with Gobert instead of Favors. I feel that if a players doesn't do anything at an elite level, then you don't give him a max contract in 2017.

Hayward is better than Barnes without a doubt. But Barnes would be very nice to have if Hayward strolls over to the biggest contract offer like he did so quickly a couple years ago.
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You've come at several faulty conclusions, typical of somebody who is annoyed that they're wrong.

1) Nobody said that Barnes isn't a good starter.

2) Nobody said, or implied that Hayward is on Pippen's level.

After you said that, there's really no point in discussing things with you. You're showing you don't have an open mind towards things.
 
Just food for thought:

Hayward in his 4th year: 36.4mpg.413fg% 5.1rpg 5.2apg 16.2ppg
Barnes in his 4th year: 30.9mpg .466fg% 4.9rpg 1.8apg 11.7ppg

And it must be noted, Barnes rarely gets a play called for him. He took 4 shots less a game than Hayward. Their numbers are pretty similar. Hayward's assist numbers are much higher, but he's been able to run PG so much because that position has sucked for us. Yes, Barnes gets to play with better players. However, he also has to be the 4th option on the team because Klay, Curry and Draymond get their's first. Hayward, on the other hand, has had a whole bunch of freedom in Utah. He's been able to average over 36mpg and start 233 games the last three years. He's been the man, and I think it's clear he's not good enough, even with a good Favors, Gobert and emerging Hood, to take us far. Not that Barnes would either....

But remember, I'm not saying Barnes is better. I'm just saying it's comparable, and I'd rather have Barnes at current Hayward money than Hayward at current Kobe money.
 
#bern said:
Barnes does everything pretty well?

Why are his PnR #'s so bad? Why does he struggle creating his own shot? Why has he never shown the ability to create for others? Lmao at him doing everything pretty well. He does 3 things at an average to above average clip, that's it.
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And I'll quote you back - "After you said that, there's really no point in discussing things with you. You're showing you don't have an open mind towards things."

We can agree to disagree. You don't think Barnes is good. I think he's pretty good. Hayward would be Barnes on GS without the ability to play PF.
 
I don't know why I do this...but I do. I'm not saying Barnes isn't good, I'm saying he's just average. He's a nice role player. I don't think he can be anything more than a 3rd option. So I'll ask again...

Barnes does everything pretty well?

Why are his PnR #'s so bad? Why does he struggle creating his own shot? Why has he never shown the ability to create for others? Lmao at him doing everything pretty well. He does 3 things at an average to above average clip, that's it. What do you see Barnes doing at an above average rate?
 
Basically, I think Barnes is a slightly better version of Marvin Williams or DeMarre Carroll. I wouldn't give him a max, or expect him to replace Hayward's productivity.
 
Stoked said:
If Hayward leaves Utah I would place Boston as his most likely destination. It's no secret the coach and FO like Hayward and Hayward likes the coach. I think him resigning with Boston is highly likely.
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I think Indiana is more likely. He lives there. His wife's family is there. He could move to the 2 or George could play some 4. Or even Gordon could play a small 4.

As for Utah. Hayward is a very good player; he's a fringe or low-level all-star. But he ain't worth tying up $30m in salary for. He isn't superstar level, but will be eligible for a 30%!deal. And some dumb team is going to offer that to him. I hope it isn't Utah.
 
da ThRONe said:
Ok so if Boston isn't in as good of a position, why did they have a better record and have the number 3 pick. They have the better GM, coach, star player, future assets and a more desirable market. Yeah I'm taking Boston 100 out of 100 times.
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they had a better record because they play in da East !!

they have a midget chucker PG They're not that good. And if they give anything up to get Kevin Love good luck to them. As he's so ably demonstrating in the finals, he's a pretty average player
 
For me I'd think about Hayward to Boston for #3, Jae Crowder (incredible contract and plugs right in to GH's spot), Kelly Olynyk, (Jerebko as cap filler) and a future first or #16. Plenty of cash to pay Gobert, Exum, and Hood going forward and add another significant piece. Plus you likely add both Murrays and let them develop.
 
LoPo said:
And I'll quote you back - "After you said that, there's really no point in discussing things with you. You're showing you don't have an open mind towards things."

We can agree to disagree. You don't think Barnes is good. I think he's pretty good. Hayward would be Barnes on GS without the ability to play PF.
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Welcome dude How many games do you watch ? Barnes is a cute player but he'd struggle if he was one of the top couple of players on his team. He creates very little, so little of what the Warriors do is predicated on Barnes. He has the fortune of playing with two of the most defense corrupting players and gets so many easy looks because of that. He can shoot OK although that would be tested if he had a tonne of defensive attention, he's athletic and can get to the hoop. That's all i see.

The trade Hayward thing is just soooo old and stale now, he's not going to walk unless the Jazz lowball him and i don't see that happening. He could even improve a little more when playing with a good PG, if Exum pans out he'll really help Haywards game.
 
Harrisn Barnes does flash some of his potential, but everytime he does it it seems like it's against a big man.
 
King Cy said:
Harrisn Barnes does flash some of his potential, but everytime he does it it seems like it's against a big man.
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lol - I assume you're trying to sound like PGAB.

Also, Trey Burke has been known to do this sorta thing.
 
LoPo, welcome to JazzFanz. Even though the criticism can get pretty intense around here, that's ok. Good ideas can generally survive criticism. I'm intrigued by your trade idea and will mull it over. Again, welcome.
 
da ThRONe said:
They already have. Love is a better player than Hayward. Some people fanhood really make them blind.
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Have you been watching the playoffs? Love is a one-way player who has shown himself with Cleveland to be overrated. It's debatable that he's better than Hay.
 
#bern said:
You've come at several faulty conclusions, typical of somebody who is annoyed that they're wrong.

1) Nobody said that Barnes isn't a good starter.

2) Nobody said, or implied that Hayward is on Pippen's level.

After you said that, there's really no point in discussing things with you. You're showing you don't have an open mind towards things.
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He never said Hayward was on Pippen's level. He said some people here think that. Big difference. Of course, he's not, at least not at this time and probably never will be. But he has improved every year, so who knows how good he might become.
 
I don't want to lose Hayward for nothing. If we trade him, the best thing is to send him to the East. And the best value we can get is from a team where he might end up as a free agent. The Hayward to Boston might be stale, but it does make sense if we get back what we want.

But like I said, I just don't want to lose him for nothing. Or overpay him

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