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Move On From Hayward?

fishonjazz said:
I don't get your point. Do you think that I believe we should only trade Hayward for a guy that will be the best player on a championship team? That's way too ambitious. I don't expect Hayward to net us a player like lebron or curry. That's silly.

Why did you even bring up kyrie?

My whole point is that I believe we need a player better than Hayward.

I would love to get a guy as good as kyrie on the jazz.
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I agree we need a guy better than Hayward on the team to win a ring. Or at least a couple who are just as good. But i would much prefer to still have Hayward on the team as well.
 
DownUnder said:
I agree we need a guy better than Hayward on the team to win a ring. Or at least a couple who are just as good. But i would much prefer to still have Hayward on the team as well.
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Ya me too. I hope that the salary Hayward gets doesn't ever hinder us from being able to sign a true star.... And again, the best way to get a star is with a top draft pick. Hayward maybe could net us that. (Though I think maybe the teams with the top picks know this as well and know that Hayward is not a star and so they would most likely not do the trade anyway)

I saw a rumor that the bulls wanted trade butler for a top pick. That's interesting. I wonder if the teams with the top picks will do that trade even for a proven all star that is on a better contract than Haywards will be.
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya me too. I hope that the salary Hayward gets doesn't ever hinder us from being able to sign a true star.... And again, the best way to get a star is with a top draft pick. Hayward maybe could net us that. (Though I think maybe the teams with the top picks know this as well and know that Hayward is not a star and so they would most likely not do the trade anyway)

I saw a rumor that the bulls wanted trade butler for a top pick. That's interesting. I wonder if the teams with the top picks will do that trade even for a proven all star that is on a better contract than Haywards will be.
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I wonder if the rumors of his locker room personality will hurt his trade value.
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya me too. I hope that the salary Hayward gets doesn't ever hinder us from being able to sign a true star.... And again, the best way to get a star is with a top draft pick. Hayward maybe could net us that. (Though I think maybe the teams with the top picks know this as well and know that Hayward is not a star and so they would most likely not do the trade anyway)

I saw a rumor that the bulls wanted trade butler for a top pick. That's interesting. I wonder if the teams with the top picks will do that trade even for a proven all star that is on a better contract than Haywards will be.
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Lol we wouldn't be able to sign a true star even if we had the cap by letting Hayward walk. When was the last time we signed a top 20 player in the offseason? Only way we get a true star is with a high draft pick, and I really don't want to see this team tank again.

DownUnder said:
I wonder if the rumors of his locker room personality will hurt his trade value.
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I haven't heard anything of his locker room personality, am I missing something or is this just a joke?
 
Rgiss said:
Lol we wouldn't be able to sign a true star even if we had the cap by letting Hayward walk. When was the last time we signed a top 20 player in the offseason? Only way we get a true star is with a high draft pick, and I really don't want to see this team tank again.
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Lol you think I have been arguing for us to sign a free agent star? Nope I have been saying we should try to get a top draft pick. That's the best way to acquire a star.
I don't think we have to tank to get a top pick.
 
^^^^That would be awesome!
 
https://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/52155


Reggie (Portland, OR):
It's pretty obvious that LeBron is at the stage of his career where he's moving to the 4, and Kevin Love needs to go. What type of player (s) should Cleveland look for in return. Defensive wings? I like Hayward and Hood for Love.

Kevin Pelton (3:43 PM):
I still think you're probably going to need to sell to LeBron that he's not the power forward, at least during the regular season. So I think ideally a player you'd look to get in return could plausibly be considered a power forward. I like Danilo Gallinari from that standpoint. Jae Crowder would be awesome but I don't see the Celtics trading him for Love. I also think the Jazz would hang up the phone before the Cavaliers could even finish that offer given how little sense Love makes for a team with two starting frontcourt players.


Atom (Athens, GA)
A fair amount of fans want their franchises to trade up in this draft to get X player. What are the chances a top 10 pick in this draft develops into a player as good as Gordon Hayward?

Kevin Pelton (4:18 PM)
A couple of years ago I looked at the distribution of outcomes for players based on their stats-only projections: https://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/11138673/marcus-smart-top-draft-prospects-based-warp-nba

Hayward's career is probably somewhere between the average of the players with 3-4 projected WARP and those with 4-plus WARP. So let's say a Hayward-equivalent prospect would have to have a WARP projection around 4. Nobody in this draft has that good a projection.

Now obviously you're also getting this player on a bargain contract, so whether they're likely to be as good as Hayward isn't the only relevant metric. But that should put into stark relief how much uncertainty there is about every draft prospect.
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Later on twitter:
Kevin Pelton ‏@kpelton 12m12 minutes ago
@Clarkpojo To be clear, no player being likely to be as good as Hayward doesn't mean that ever player is likely to be worse than Hayward.
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Kevin Pelton ‏@kpelton 12m12 minutes ago
@Clarkpojo Someone almost certainly will be better. We just don't know who yet.
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Clark Schmutz @Clarkpojo

@kpelton I assume and took away from your statement that trading Hayward for any of this year's players is too risky, if you were Jazz GM?
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Kevin Pelton ‏@kpelton 5m5 minutes ago
@Clarkpojo I wouldn't do it unless you think he's going to lave as a free agent.
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My whole trade idea is based on the idea that Hayward leaves next summer. A pick is safer than just one year of Hayward.

Sent from my VS980 4G using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LoPo said:
My whole trade idea is based on the idea that Hayward leaves next summer. A pick is safer than just one year of Hayward.

Sent from my VS980 4G using JazzFanz mobile app
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Overall I agree with that. If they KNOW we have very small chance of keeping him, I'd trade him for the best offer. I just don't agree with the other reasons(i.e. he doesn't deserve max, we can't be contenders with Hayward, etc.), those in my opinion are BS. On the contrary - we can't be a contender, unless we have a secondary playmaker like Hayward. Example - every single contender right now has at least two very talented offensive players.
 
stitches said:
Overall I agree with that. If they KNOW we have very small chance of keeping him, I'd trade him for the best offer. I just don't agree with the other reasons(i.e. he doesn't deserve max, we can't be contenders with Hayward, etc.), those in my opinion are BS. On the contrary - we can't be a contender, unless we have a secondary playmaker like Hayward. Example - every single contender right now has at least two very talented offensive players.
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You are correct. We need a Hayward type to contend. Its just so hard to start out as an alpha and slide to 2nd or 3rd fiddle. Very rarely does it happen where a guy stays and gets demoted, and it usually is done with stars (Kyrie, Wade, Duncan come to mind).

Here is the future I predict. One of two things will happen during the 2016-17 season.
1. We show progress as a team, make the playoffs and there is a bunch of momentum. We don't contend, but we have life. Hayward opts out for money, we are desperate to continue to develop, and we pay him Joe Johnson type money. In 2020, people laugh at us for his contract.
2. We do about the same this year as recent years. We maybe make the playoffs, but we get throttled. Hayward opts out and realizes that the grass might be greener in the easier East under his old coach. We get nothing in return.

There is a world where I could be okay with #1. Hayward would just really have to show signs of dominance in certain situations. He has to be great. Not good at everything but great at a couple things. And our team has to show signs of real contending chemistry. An all in feel around the team.

Sent from my VS980 4G using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LoPo said:
He has to be great. Not good at everything but great at a couple things.
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I agree. For 30-40 million per year (if he gets the 5 year max) I want a player who isn't just good at everything (I think Hayward is solid everywhere and a really good player) but is elite at something (preferably scoring) to feel good about that contract.

If the jazz keep him for crazy money I will stil be happy cause we will be a very good team. I love the jazz roster and the versatility of it and how none of our guys seem redundant to each other. Each guy seems to offer something a bit unique. Would be a very fun team to watch... I just wouldn't feel great about his contract. But it ain't my money I guess.
 
magic said:
Why do people on here think we can trade Hayward for a high draft pick. I mean I know this forum tends on the overly optimistic side of things, but still.

I wish people would think of trades from the perspectives of both sides. Like in this case above, imagine if Boston was actually Utah. Would you want to trade the #3 pick for a 1 year rental?

If people actually looked at the trade from the other side and pretended that team was actually Utah, I think a lot of silly trade proposals would be eliminated.
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Couldn't have said it any better.
 
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