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My thoughts on The Jazz first 3 games FWIW

Handlogten's Heros said:
mentioned in the other post I'm concerned, but wanted to continue on a little soapbox... what is the upside of that lineup? They are really good defensively, but couldn't Favs or Ricky be replaced with better shooters and there would be a huge uptick in offense while the defense stays very similar. I think Favs and Ricky are plus defenders, but how much are they truly adding (I genuinely am not sure)?

Like what is the big benefit to duct taping this lineup together to make it work. I've thought a little bit about what Kevin Love would look like in our offense. He can't create, but can post, shoot, pass, and offensive rebound. The defense is bad... but in the playoffs if him and Gobert share the floor and they try and get Kevin on the switch then Gobert can still hang out around the basket.

I just worry teams have figured out to drop the big against us and if we aren't 40% plus from 3 we have a good chance of losing. I think we ride Ricky and Favs as starters until it is absolutely, positively proven it sucks... and I support it. Both guys are in contract years and a knee jerk move to the bench could lose them. I think we need to gradually pull one or the other earlier if it continues to suck.
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So I mostly agree with you, but I don’t think it’s too early to just move Favors to the (first-big-off-the) bench. Clogging the lane isn’t doing anyone favors (heh), including himself.

Rubio deserves a longer leash because I really don’t think anyone else is ready to start at the 1. In such an event, I think you make Donovan the 1 and start another wing.
 
NUMBERICA said:
So I mostly agree with you, but I don’t think it’s too early to just move Favors to the (first-big-off-the) bench. Clogging the lane isn’t doing anyone favors (heh), including himself.

Rubio deserves a longer leash because I really don’t think anyone else is ready to start at the 1. In such an event, I think you make Donovan the 1 and start another wing.
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Maybe we sit Favs out a couple games for his knee and just see what happens. If we decide he is just a backup I think at that point we need to find a trade partner. I think we could find another good center to provide Rudy insurance. Agree on Ricky... Dante has been good and bad and we all know he's had trouble staying on the court. We need to proceed with caution there.

DM has just had a rough start (like really really bad). Just looked at the numbers and his shooting is the biggest issue... may be a result of clogged lanes. His 3pt shooting, FT shooting, are all down and that isn't all on spacing. If he was anywhere near to last year's average we are 3-0.

Road trip will be a good test. If Ricky, DM, and Dante all continue to struggle with shooting then we adjust something. They can't all be this bad for long... right?

I think we mingle more Allen and Niang and see what happens too. Allen had some drives to nowhere but he beat his man because of hard close outs and might be a guy to help us get the blender started as well as provide spacing.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Maybe we sit Favs out a couple games for his knee and just see what happens. If we decide he is just a backup I think at that point we need to find a trade partner. I think we could find another good center to provide Rudy insurance. Agree on Ricky... Dante has been good and bad and we all know he's had trouble staying on the court. We need to proceed with caution there.

DM has just had a rough start (like really really bad). Just looked at the numbers and his shooting is the biggest issue... may be a result of clogged lanes. His 3pt shooting, FT shooting, are all down and that isn't all on spacing. If he was anywhere near to last year's average we are 3-0.

Road trip will be a good test. If Ricky, DM, and Dante all continue to struggle with shooting then we adjust something. They can't all be this bad for long... right?

I think we mingle more Allen and Niang and see what happens too. Allen had some drives to nowhere but he beat his man because of hard close outs and might be a guy to help us get the blender started as well as provide spacing.
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What I would say about DM are things I’ve already mentioned to some degree, but they are compounding each other:

1 - Donovan isn’t a dead-eye shooter. He has decent touch and great form, but he has to be feeling it. If he can’t get to the rim because it’s a wall, then getting him going gets really difficult. If he can’t hit shots, the defense can really pack it in.

2 - He just isn’t moving like he was last year. He just isn’t. He’s either hiding an injury or he hasn’t psychologically moved past one that’s healed. People like to laugh about the conspiracy theory of his foot still being an issue but he was in a boot for, what, close to 3 months? And he wasn’t cleared for 5-on-5 until a couple of weeks before camp? That’s a serious injury.

Add these things together and of course he’s going to play, carry himself, and produce differently.

And yeah, if Favors is injured at all, he shouldn’t play.
 
Favors definitely isn't the long term answer as the starting 4. Imagine how good Middlleton, Mirotic, or Tobias Harris would look in our offense, and I think they're all free agents at the end of the season. Otto Porter would also be a dream fit if the Wizards were willing to trade him.
 
NUMBERICA said:
What I would say about DM are things I’ve already mentioned to some degree, but they are compounding each other:

1 - Donovan isn’t a dead-eye shooter. He has decent touch and great form, but he has to be feeling it. If he can’t get to the rim because it’s a wall, then getting him going gets really difficult. If he can’t hit shots, the defense can really pack it in.

2 - He just isn’t moving like he was last year. He just isn’t. He’s either hiding an injury or he hasn’t psychologically moved past one that’s healed. People like to laugh about the conspiracy theory of his foot still being an issue but he was in a boot for, what, close to 3 months? And he wasn’t cleared for 5-on-5 until a couple of weeks before camp? That’s a serious injury.

Add these things together and of course he’s going to play, carry himself, and produce differently.

And yeah, if Favors is injured at all, he shouldn’t play.
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Yeah I'm just not sure what to think of it. If that part doesn't get solved we are legit in trouble though.

If he was hurt though I think we'd use him a little different. Have him take the attention, but not force so many possessions his way. Have him look to drive and kick more... which would necessitate more shooting on the floor.
 
Really think DM is hurt, guys. Sorry to say it. Foot doesn't seem right - he's lacking the "athletic pop" that Sir DL loves to reference.
 
Here’s my thoughts:

The pre-season.

Yes. You used to play 8 games of pre-season. Our pre-season consisted of two real teams, one awful team, and two Australian teams. Our biggest problem right now is not being in any kind of groove. However, remember how everyone was still riding high after the GSW game? That was only a game ago.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I just don't know how long we can ignore the numbers with Favors on and off the floor with the starters. It goes back to last year.

You are a smart basketball guy, surely you see how much different it looks?

If you told me what you are seeing, and why it's no cause for concern, it's an opinion I would take seriously.
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WTF you talkin about? Favors was an integral part of one of the league's elite lineups last year. Not good, elite.
 
we are fine. We were 9 games under 500 last year. guess what happened? They will figure it out.

member when Magic started with 8-2 record last year? **** happens beginning of the season. we just had 1 bad game.
 
if this is the overreaction already, i'm looking forward to the hysteria that will ensue if we're 1-5 in a week
 
I want to see a lot more of Allen and Niang in the rotation. Also, I don't believe DM is playing badly, I think he is trying to shoulder a bit too much but he's also learning on the fly on howto adjust to defenses overplaying him now. I think we'll even out and be back to the great team we know we are in short order. My biggest concern moving forward is that we tend to play down to our competition and I hate that.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
That lineup was much better when Favors was swapped out for Crowder.
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+110/+126. Much better is a huge overstatement. Considering that that lineup played less than half the minutes, Crowder>their 2nd stringer, and that it's a situational lineup and the difference narrows.

+110, Favors isnt a problem. We dont need to paint him as our scapegoat.
 
My thoughts? It’s a long season, and I’ll evaluate it after 20 games or so. My biggest concern now is Mitchell’s health. I’m hoping his lackluster play is more conditioning and zero actual foot issues.
 
Here’s a middle-ground solution:

-When Favors is nursing anything, sit him. Some players produce and are effective with nagging injury, Favors sure as hell isn’t one of them. And we don’t need excuses for our losses, we need wins.
-Make both he and Crowder situational starters: Favors for mediocre teams, Crowder for teams that are better coached/more disciplined/stretchier/faster.
 
If Mitchell were shooting even half decent we wouldn't be talking about him being hurt, but that also wouldn't mean that he isn't hurt. It's just that he can do things even when hurt to get an open shot or the occasional driving basket, he's that special.

But he's not right, no way no how. Either he's not in game shape, he's protecting his injury, or he has some other ailment we don't know about. It's possible it's only one of those or all three in some combination.

My guess is his foot is bothering him. I saw him run a little funny again for just a few steps in last nights game, got all nervous that he had reinjured it, then he went back to looking(relatively) normal. I don't think it's fatigue because he hasn't really showed signs of being gassed. I don't think it's some other injury but it could be.

I mentioned it after the icing during the game in the preseason, but we might need to err on the side of caution if it's his foot. Of course he might be hiding it from everyone, including the trainers. Maybe he thinks it's not that bad. But as Numberica said he isn't moving like he did last year. And didn't he play 37 minutes last night?

I always hoped I was being too much of a worry wart and he was actually fine, even had fun with it while you guys gave me crap. But I'm afraid this could be serious.
 
I wonder how many minutes Sefolosha will take from Favors when he gets back. Sef wasn't anything special but he'd be another option at the very least.

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