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Handlogten's Heros

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I make fun of it, and I have 2 degrees. But I am in my 50's. I had 2 kids that got hit at the beginning of it. The ridiculous thing was what you pointed out, it should be acceptable for people to learn how they learn best. My daughter was very very good at math. Did a lot in her head. She is in college to be a math teacher now (maybe English, she's changed a couple times). But she would do her assignment, much faster and more efficiently than common core taught, and get a bad grade with the right answer, wrong method. She got grades overturned which helped her keep her 3.95 GPA. But one class she had every answer right and was riding a B- because she wouldn't do the common core method. That was absolutely ridiculous. Watching her slog through algebra assignments was painful, especially when she was saying "the answer is -13" before she even started writing out the grid or whatever. And of course she was right.

It made math more difficult for my son too, even while he was not very good at math. He would still say "isn't it easier to add it across" rather than grouping and stuff. He got ok grades because he showed the work, but he also told me that getting into the real world math just does not work that way.

It's a joke. I think it might be a good tool for certain circumstances, or as an alternate method, but making it the end all be all was just stupid.
This is the problem… that and early in the process they over implicate simple processes. They also don’t emphasize the memorization of times tables so my daughter in AP math can’t tell you what 7x7 is without thinking about it. Going through all their steps takes away from class time that they could use to drill **** in their heads they will use forever. So this summer I’m making my daughter memorize the times tables like I did in third grade because I use that **** every day.

The biggest problem I have is the two math teachers in middle school are completely unhelpful. So when I help my daughter get the right answer another way it isn’t good enough and they won’t take the time to walk her through their way. One is retiring soon so I think he checked out.
 


fishonjazz

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This is the problem… that and early in the process they over implicate simple processes. They also don’t emphasize the memorization of times tables so my daughter in AP math can’t tell you what 7x7 is without thinking about it. Going through all their steps takes away from class time that they could use to drill **** in their heads they will use forever. So this summer I’m making my daughter memorize the times tables like I did in third grade because I use that **** every day.

The biggest problem I have is the two math teachers in middle school are completely unhelpful. So when I help my daughter get the right answer another way it isn’t good enough and they won’t take the time to walk her through their way. One is retiring soon so I think he checked out.

The times table is awesome. Im in my mid 40’s and i can still tell you any number times any other number (up to 12 x 12 of course) in literally 1 second.
They dont teach the times table anymore? Wtf that is stupid.


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Handlogten's Heros

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The times table is awesome. Im in my mid 40’s and i can still tell you any number times any other number (up to 12 x 12 of course) in literally 1 second.
They dont teach the times table anymore? Wtf that is stupid.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
They do but they don't drill it into their damn heads like we did. I remember having timed tests constantly. I really think they get too high on theory and other BS. My kid has a guitar class and they spend most of the semester writing and presenting a large report on a historical guitarist... that they don't even get to pick. Its like an English class. In my guitar class we learned how to read music and play the guitar... you ain't gotta overcomplicate some stuff.
 

One Brow

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This is the problem… that and early in the process they over implicate simple processes. They also don’t emphasize the memorization of times tables so my daughter in AP math can’t tell you what 7x7 is without thinking about it.
I have a calculator on my cell phone. The time saved is minimal, at best.

Going through all their steps takes away from class time that they could use to drill **** in their heads they will use forever.
I can't speak for you, but I hope my kids learn the skills of analyzing a problem and working out steps to solve it, and use them forever.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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I have a calculator on my cell phone. The time saved is minimal, at best.


I can't speak for you, but I hope my kids learn the skills of analyzing a problem and working out steps to solve it, and use them forever.
Clearly - I hope my kids are math robots that can think or solve problems lol. There are some things in life that require analysis and critical thinking.. I hope they have those skills. There are other things that don't need theory or deep analysis and you can just start solving the issue.
 

One Brow

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Clearly - I hope my kids are math robots that can think or solve problems lol.
I am assuming a typo, where you meant "can't". There's also only so much time in a school curriculum, and memorizing times tables isn't nearly as important as it used to be. I'm sure you're aware that the more one practices a skill, the more proficient one becomes. What skill matters more in an age when 95+% of people carry around a calculator?

There are some things in life that require analysis and critical thinking.. I hope they have those skills. There are other things that don't need theory or deep analysis and you can just start solving the issue.
Of course.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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I am assuming a typo, where you meant "can't". There's also only so much time in a school curriculum, and memorizing times tables isn't nearly as important as it used to be. I'm sure you're aware that the more one practices a skill, the more proficient one becomes. What skill matters more in an age when 95+% of people carry around a calculator?


Of course.
Yes but say you wanted to learn to play basketball and instead of starting by teaching you to dribble and shoot I focused on how to read the floor and different defensive schemes... those are very important for sure but when we roll the ball out and start playing you are going to struggle. Getting the basics down is going to help when critical thinking is needed. Having a calculator is nice and all but there is value in having that **** solid beyond saving some time on the old calculator. We always have google maps available but we spend time on states and state capitals.

The idea behind common core is probably educationally solid... teach critical thinking etc. What I get from my kids isn't that at all. Its more a rigid set of rules/steps to solve some problem than some free thinking exercise of self discovery that teaches them life skills they otherwise wouldn't have lol. That skill isn't being instilled in this case so there is a disconnect somewhere.

I'm no educational expert by any means... I can tell you I was way better at math than my kids.
 

One Brow

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Yes but say you wanted to learn to play basketball and instead of starting by teaching you to dribble and shoot I focused on how to read the floor and different defensive schemes... those are very important for sure but when we roll the ball out and start playing you are going to struggle. Getting the basics down is going to help when critical thinking is needed.
That's a great point, and relevant in an abstract way. Now, develop that idea further into how memorizing the times tables prevents this type of struggle. What's the problem you are solving where memorizing times tables helps you more than figuring out how numbers relate to each other?

Having a calculator is nice and all but there is value in having that **** solid beyond saving some time on the old calculator. We always have google maps available but we spend time on states and state capitals.
Are you making an argument for traditionalism? If not, what's your point here?

The idea behind common core is probably educationally solid... teach critical thinking etc. What I get from my kids isn't that at all. Its more a rigid set of rules/steps to solve some problem than some free thinking exercise of self discovery that teaches them life skills they otherwise wouldn't have lol. That skill isn't being instilled in this case so there is a disconnect somewhere.
Teachers who were raised with memorizing times tables will struggle to teach common core ideas effectively, especially for the first few years. It's also going to be harder for kids to learn, because abstraction is harder than memorization for kids. No argument there.

I'm no educational expert by any means... I can tell you I was way better at math than my kids.
I've always been terrible at arithmetic. I'm pretty good at math.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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That's a great point, and relevant in an abstract way. Now, develop that idea further into how memorizing the times tables prevents this type of struggle. What's the problem you are solving where memorizing times tables helps you more than figuring out how numbers relate to each other?
Just like learning or memorizing the basics in anything helps you to handle the more complex advanced aspects of the subject. If I know how to dribble and its automatic due to boring repetitious muscle memory I am able to free up my thoughts in game to analyze what is going on with the defense, where my teammates are, etc. If I understand theory of basketball its going to be impossible to play still if I am dribbling the ball off my foot.

Are you making an argument for traditionalism? If not, what's your point here?

Pretty obvious - just because we have the info at our fingertips doesn't mean its not valuable to teach it. Why teach spelling and grammar... we have spell check and apps and it saves time.
Teachers who were raised with memorizing times tables will struggle to teach common core ideas effectively, especially for the first few years. It's also going to be harder for kids to learn, because abstraction is harder than memorization for kids. No argument there.

If its too hard maybe memorize a few notes and chords rather than trying to play a song. Math homework regularly leads to tears and frustration.
I've always been terrible at arithmetic. I'm pretty good at math.
That's cute but likely dishonest. Pretty tough to be terrible at one thing and pretty good at the advanced concepts it builds on. I've yet to see a good basketball player that can shoot, dribble, or pass.


Look you are more familiar with it... I'm sure it has great benefits somewhere that may make it superior in some ways... I'm merely downloading the results in our household.
 

LogGrad98

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The times table is awesome. Im in my mid 40’s and i can still tell you any number times any other number (up to 12 x 12 of course) in literally 1 second.
They dont teach the times table anymore? Wtf that is stupid.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
I forced my kids to learn times tables. I learned up to 14 because I had a teacher that offered extra credit if we did that. The funny thing was later my kids told me stories about kids in class that couldn't answer questions without writing out problems that my kids could answer because they knew their times tables.

And in my world people have to be able to figure out how many cases of product are needed when each case holds 12 units and you need to ship 132 units. They don't have time to write out the problem or use a calculator lots of the time. We have computer systems that take a lot of that out of the mix but I need people who can figure it out to make sure what the computer is telling them is right. We've had lots of mistakes because people can't figure out that they need 12 cases if they are picking 144 units, stuff like that.
 

LogGrad98

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I have a calculator on my cell phone. The time saved is minimal, at best.


I can't speak for you, but I hope my kids learn the skills of analyzing a problem and working out steps to solve it, and use them forever.
We don't allow cell phones in the warehouse. We do provide calculators for some roles. The warehouse management system takes care of most of the basic math. But it isn't flawless. The people that are most successful are the ones who can figure out the times the box doesn't match the system and still understand how many they need to ship. It's very very helpful for people to be able to figure out some basic arithmetic on the fly like this in my environment, to the point we often give math tests as prehire screening. Times tables comes in very handy in the work place where I am.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

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I forced my kids to learn times tables. I learned up to 14 because I had a teacher that offered extra credit if we did that. The funny thing was later my kids told me stories about kids in class that couldn't answer questions without writing out problems that my kids could answer because they knew their times tables.

And in my world people have to be able to figure out how many cases of product are needed when each case holds 12 units and you need to ship 132 units. They don't have time to write out the problem or use a calculator lots of the time. We have computer systems that take a lot of that out of the mix but I need people who can figure it out to make sure what the computer is telling them is right. We've had lots of mistakes because people can't figure out that they need 12 cases if they are picking 144 units, stuff like that.
I just think of everything off 10.

Like what is 12*12?

Well 12*10 is 120 so two more 12s is 24. So 144.
 


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