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Nikola Mirotic

Good conversation back and forth Ron, Fish and Cy on this whole Mirotic thing.

The way I see it, Mirotic might be a perfect fit. He is rumored to like Utah and Quin. He's a Euro who isn't tied to another coach, city or region. If we get him and he fits well, we have the chance to keep him long term.

I'm willing to trade our 1st at something like top 12 protected which maybe goes to top 10 protected for the next few drafts after that. I would only send the pick if Burks and/or Rubio are also sent. Let's just say hypothetically we trade them Rubio, Burks and our top 12 pick for Mirotic and some expiring throw in like Pondexter.

After that trade, we could use JoeJ and Favors to get really aggressive. We could take back a bad contract that goes into 2018-19 or even 2019-20 if we didn't have to pay Burks and Rubio a combined $26 next year. Sure, we might sacrifice a little 2019 cap room, but we would have Mirotic and the asset gained by trading Favors and JoeJ.

We could take a guy like JR Smith, Mahinmi, Biyombo, Fournier, Deng, etc. if were only paying Mirotic $12.5 in 2018-19 instead of Rubio and Burks $26.
 
We are not trading our 1st for Mirotic. Not even lottery protected. Why would you outbid other teams? More importantly, it may restrict your ability to trade future 1st and make deals due to the Stepien rule.
 
latin jazz said:
We are not trading our 1st for Mirotic. Not even lottery protected. Why would you outbid other teams? More importantly, it may restrict your ability to trade future 1st and make deals due to the Stepien rule.
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I don't believe we are in the bottom 12 if we get Mirotic and Rudy comes back. The guy is absolutely tearing up. I don't like trading our draft pick, but at some point, we want to be relevant. And I don't count last year as making us relevant.

I agree with whoever said it - our timeline just shot forward with the emergence of Mitchell. Rudy and Mitchell are legit pieces. I think Hood, Exum and Ingles are very complimentary pieces to that. Now, we need another piece that fits to compliment the others. Mirotic seems like that guy.
 
latin jazz said:
We are not trading our 1st for Mirotic. Not even lottery protected. Why would you outbid other teams? More importantly, it may restrict your ability to trade future 1st and make deals due to the Stepien rule.
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Because I'd value the reality of Mirotic over a future hypothetical.
 
latin jazz said:
I would rather maximize our ability to land a franchise player through this draft. As good as Mirotic looks, he is not a franchise player.
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That would require being worse than we are (unless we're banking on low probabilities of jumping 10 spots), to not win many games with Rudy returning, to have the right guy be available, and to take that guy. Again, I really feel drafting Donovan really warped our expectations of the draft. A few years ago we tanked, hoping to land Wiggins or Jabari because they were pretty sure bets. Neither one looks all that great right now.
 
latin jazz said:
KD but we can also include other players if we are willing to move the cut a little bit (i.e. Markkanen)
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I consider kd to be a pretty good player and markkanen to have some potential to be pretty good.
 
LoPo said:
I don't believe we are in the bottom 12 if we get Mirotic and Rudy comes back. The guy is absolutely tearing up. I don't like trading our draft pick, but at some point, we want to be relevant. And I don't count last year as making us relevant.

I agree with whoever said it - our timeline just shot forward with the emergence of Mitchell. Rudy and Mitchell are legit pieces. I think Hood, Exum and Ingles are very complimentary pieces to that. Now, we need another piece that fits to compliment the others. Mirotic seems like that guy.
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At best he is worth a late 1st rounder. You don't sacrifice an amazing asset unless you are one piece away from contending or trying to keep a star (and those moves could backfire). We are not one player away, heck, we may not even make the playoffs. Our best bet for landing another star is through the draft. And this year's draft is loaded with talent at the top. Mirotic is a good piece but not worth this year's draft.
 
latin jazz said:
At best he is worth a late 1st rounder. You don't sacrifice an amazing asset unless you are one piece away from contending or trying to keep a star (and those moves could backfire). We are not one player away, heck, we may not even make the playoffs. Our best bet for landing another star is through the draft. And this year's draft is loaded with talent at the top. Mirotic is a good piece but not worth this year's draft.
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I don't think we disagree on much but I think where we may see things different is the definition of "amazing asset." I don't view a 20-30 pick as an amazing asset. All-stars have been selected there. Hell, I'm sure there are a handful of hall-of-famers in the 20-30 range. I get that you probably don't view that as amazing either, but you don't like the idea of not being able to deal a future pick because it's potentially allocated somewhere else. This is where we start to value 'potential' way higher than current realities. 'Maybe' we need a (20-30 pick) to complete a blockbuster deal (which phenomenal player would a 20-30 pick make or break the deal of?). In reality, I think the chances of needing that pick for a specific deal for a player of enough value to be reasonably better than Mirotic is slim enough that you've got to roll forward on making a move for him.
 
infection said:
That would require being worse than we are (unless we're banking on low probabilities of jumping 10 spots), to not win many games with Rudy returning, to have the right guy be available, and to take that guy. Again, I really feel drafting Donovan really warped our expectations of the draft. A few years ago we tanked, hoping to land Wiggins or Jabari because they were pretty sure bets. Neither one looks all that great right now.
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But Embiid looks amazing now. In every draft you can find busts or underachievers. But its is more likely to find talent the higher you select. No rocket science there. I would be all in for trading our pick if we were close to being contenders. We are not.
 
Lindsey has gambled with 2 FRPs in the last two years, and the results are that Utah is currently sitting well out of the playoffs. At this point, if he gives up a lottery pick for a guy with one year left on his contract, his head should be on the chopping block if things don't work out.

Utah is not in a position to be trading away picks for short term improvement. It shouldn't even be a question. Besides that, if DL was dumb enough to give up our pick this year, that trade would have happened by now.

Some people are overvaluing this guy based on a recent shooting streak, when the reality is that he's almost certainly going to come back down to the guy his career #s say he is.
 
latin jazz said:
But Embiid looks amazing now. In every draft you can find busts or underachievers. But its is more likely to find talent the higher you select. No rocket science there. I would be all in for trading our pick if we were close to being contenders. We are not.
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And at the time we wouldn't have moved for Embiid, especially with injury question marks.
 
latin jazz said:
But we don't have that. We are not offering our 1st. Most we can offer is second rounders or as Cy pointed out, get a third team involved to give up a late 1st.

I was wondering today that If we didn't trade for Rubio, we could have used OKC's pick to trade for Mirotic.
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Disagree. Imo we have a first we can offer. That is something that I belive tyne bulls value. I think the jazz should trade a 1st for him.
 
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz would he dumb to give up their lotto pick. Let's not be ridiculous.
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I think it’s allowed to give up 1st round picks that are not in the lottery. I have even heard of picks having some sort of protection on them.
 
infection said:
I don't think we disagree on much but I think where we may see things different is the definition of "amazing asset." I don't view a 20-30 pick as an amazing asset. All-stars have been selected there. Hell, I'm sure there are a handful of hall-of-famers in the 20-30 range. I get that you probably don't view that as amazing either, but you don't like the idea of not being able to deal a future pick because it's potentially allocated somewhere else. This is where we start to value 'potential' way higher than current realities. 'Maybe' we need a (20-30 pick) to complete a blockbuster deal (which phenomenal player would a 20-30 pick make or break the deal of?). In reality, I think the chances of needing that pick for a specific deal for a player of enough value to be reasonably better than Mirotic is slim enough that you've got to roll forward on making a move for him.
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Our pick is likely to be in the top 10 and I consider that an amazing asset. A pick in the 22-30 range would be the right price for Niko but it needs protections, which in turn take away your flexibility for future deals. That's a tough call for a team that emphasizes the draft to add talent. If right now we were a top 4 or 5 team in the West (like last year), then I would entertain the idea since there would be more certainty about the pick and our team.
 
If we use our first to get Mirotic and dump a bad contract like Burks', then we can use Favors and JoeJ to get another first. I'm not saying we go first-less in this draft. I'm just saying get a guy who seems to fit need, likes the staff, and should have staying power.
 
latin jazz said:
Why would you outbid other teams?
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To get the thing that you want. If someone else out bids you then you don’t get the thing that you want. The thing goes to the highest bidder. At least that’s how I understand bidding/auctions.

What you don’t want to do is out bid yourself or overpay.
 
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