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Game Thread Nov 08, 2023 05:00PM MT: Jazz at Pacers

Added to Calendar: 11-08-23

It’s ok to be honest about our favorite player. Most of Lauri’s points come from assisted layups/dunks and assisted 3s which is ****ing amazing. Let’s not act like he’s creating a bunch for others or doing a bunch of stuff off the dribble though.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I’m not going to let a bad set of 10 games skew what we know about Clarkson as a player as a whole. He was awesome for an entire season last year.
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What is he as a player then? Starter or a 6th man? 1 way or 2 way? Efficient or mid?
 
Elizah Huge said:
It’s ok to be honest about our favorite player. Most of Lauri’s points come from assisted layups/dunks and assisted 3s which is ****ing amazing. Let’s not act like he’s creating a bunch for others or doing a bunch of stuff off the dribble though.
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He creates in his own way but its off ball and does require a pass. Like he's not spotting up and just hoping the defense forgets. He creates offball havoc but working off down screens and such. many of his baskets are assisted and he's just not a solo iso artist.

Its not a knock... people can calm down.
 
HermanG said:
What is he as a player then? Starter or a 6th man? 1 way or 2 way? Efficient or mid?
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I think it’s obvious that he’s better off the bench as a scoring 6th man type. I want to trade him.

I just don’t agree with people using him as the scapegoat when he was good last night. We have a lot more problems than Clarkson scoring 33 points on pretty good efficiency. Yes it is infuriating at times and yes he has been turnover prone.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Yeah, I’m cool with trading him. He is one of our best self creators at the moment though as far as scoring goes.
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Points per game is such a misleading stat alone, without efficiency. Self-creators are great if they shoot with high efficiency, but Clarkson generally doesn’t do that. And when you add his turnovers to that, it’s tough. I think Clarkson’s age if not helping him here either. Danny has designed his contract with trading him in mind (probably before the trade deadline this season).
 
Elizah Huge said:
I think it’s obvious that he’s better off the bench as a scoring 6th man type. I want to trade him.

I just don’t agree with people using him as the scapegoat when he was good last night. We have a lot more problems than Clarkson scoring 33 points on pretty good efficiency. Yes it is infuriating at times and yes he has been turnover prone.
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I dont think anyone is looking at this one game. In the big picture he has been our biggest negative impact player.

My gripe is really about him being entitled to super high minutes and greenest of lights, despite being one of the leading causes of malfunctions on both ends.
 
HermanG said:
I dont think anyone is looking at this one game. In the big picture he has been our biggest negative impact player.

My gripe is really about him being entitled to super high minutes and greenest of lights, despite being one of the leading causes of malfunctions on both ends.
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He always has been under both Hardy and Quin.
 
underdog said:
Points per game is such a misleading stat alone, without efficiency. Self-creators are great if they shoot with high efficiency, but Clarkson generally doesn’t do that. And when you add his turnovers to that, it’s tough. I think Clarkson’s age if not helping him here either. Danny has designed his contract with trading him in mind (probably before the trade deadline this season).
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yep and the opposite is true as well. efficiency without ppg needs a further look. bottom line, kick clarkson to the curb.
 
If we trade Clarkson soon and get some decent value for him, great. If this is just what we are doing as a team strategy then it is stupid as **** and someone needs to put a stop to it.

The worse the team is, the more emboldened Clarkson is to chuck away. It's not going to get better.
 
HermanG said:
I dont think anyone is looking at this one game. In the big picture he has been our biggest negative impact player.

My gripe is really about him being entitled to super high minutes and greenest of lights, despite being one of the leading causes of malfunctions on both ends.
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He is our glorious tank commander.
 
outerspacefan said:
I really don't see how Jordan Clarkson can be our biggest negative impact player.
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I agree, and yet he has been horrible this year and I’d trade him in a heartbeat if the right deal presented itself. But I suspect with our start this year and a possible generational talent at the end of the rainbow again, that Hardy is on his own this year. We’re not going to tank intentionally, but Ainge will do nothing to make life easier for Hardy.

That being said, in my mind, Clarkson showed flashes of his old self last night. Doesn’t anybody around here remember the Sixth Man Award or how important he was to this team last year - the showdown with Mitchell? Anybody remember “The Flamethrower”?

But my intention is not to deride or cast aspersions. I said it myself in a recent game thread, that Clarkson was doing the most harm. My suspicion is that with his fashion and music interests that basketball is not the center of his universe anymore. But now that I’ve caught a glimpse of the bigger picture, I guess players eff’n up is no longer something I choose to lose sleep over.

JC’s a character and so is Sexton and THT and Olynyk and Kessler. We’re the misfits, that’s all I’m saying, might as well embrace it, win or more likely, lose. Cause truth is, we can’t lose and our day will come.
 
outerspacefan said:
I really don't see how Jordan Clarkson can be our biggest negative impact player.
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Technically and by the advanced numbers Kessler has been our worst player, but Jordan has much larger impact on the team as whole as one of the main ball handlers and minute leaders.

He uses 28.6% of the offensive possessions when he is on the court (highest usage in the team), and produces worse results than 90% of NBA players (starters, bench and deep bench included). He turns the ball over in 17.7% of those possessions and scores 0.93 points per shot attempt taken (which accounts for free throws also) which are both abysmal numbers.

He sets a bad tone where the team has to run back on defense time and time again after wasted possessions where he "went to his bag" and came up with garbage.
 
HermanG said:
Technically and by the advanced numbers Kessler has been our worst player, but Jordan has much larger impact on the team as whole as one of the main ball handlers and minute leaders.

He uses 28.6% of the offensive possessions when he is on the court (highest usage in the team), and produces worse results than 90% of NBA players (starters, bench and deep bench included). He turns the ball over in 17.7% of those possessions and scores 0.93 points per shot attempt taken (which accounts for free throws also) which are both abysmal numbers.

He sets a bad tone where the team has to run back on defense time and time again after wasted possessions where he "went to his bag" and came up with garbage.
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17.7% seems extremely high. What is a player like say lillards percentage for comparison
 
JC has been awful indeed. That's a fact. But he's been put in an impossible situation, just like almost all of our players.
The whole team's been a victim of coaching deliriums. Michael Jordan would have had problems within our coach lineups and psychodelic rotations.
Hardy's been crazy absurd to the point that's he's jeopardizing Jazz's path forward.
 
outerspacefan said:
JC has been awful indeed. That's a fact. But he's been put in an impossible situation, just like almost all of our players.
The whole team's been a victim of coaching deliriums. Michael Jordan would have had problems within our coach lineups and psychodelic rotations.
Hardy's been crazy absurd to the point that's he's jeopardizing Jazz's path forward.
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Hardy and DA can go debate which one is more responsible. If everyone plays below their normal level it usually points to the coach though.

The players (JC as well) also may have played above their level last year due to low expectations and strong locker room spirit.

Lauri looks the same and THT feels improved, but pretty much everyone else from last years squad looks like a lesser version this year.
 
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