Game Thread Nov 23, 2025 06:00PM MT: Los Angeles Lakers @ Utah Jazz

[George W]

it is ****ing hysterical that ppl thought Collier deserved to start ahead of George at the start of this season.

- George

 

[jumpin bean]

Collier has been horribble in the halfcourt

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

it is ****ing hysterical that ppl thought Collier deserved to start ahead of George at the start of this season.

- George

I don't remember people here sharing that opinion.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Cody not helping tank the offense is the opinion. The fact that the ORtg is fine with him on the court does not prove the opinion correct. That's awful statistical analysis. The SSS being the entire sample does nothing wrt curbing randomness/luck.

????

Cody didn't tank the offense because it wasn't tanked with him on the court.

Calling it a small sample size is using it to predict whether the Jazz will continue to have an ok offense with him on the court. That's my opinion, but I could be wrong.

 

[George W]

I don't remember people here sharing that opinion.

go look at preseason polls and how many voted for George being more likely to come off the bench

- George

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz have scored 2 pts in the last 3 minutes. We're having a bit of a lull.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Blast to the past, but I remember when somebody here was using this stat to try to make a point about Kanter's defense compared to Gobert's.

In the final month before we traded Kanter, the Jazz's defensive rating with Kanter on the court was actually a 98.1 in 388 minutes, whereas it was only a 105.5 in 340 Gobert minutes.

And now we have somebody using Cody Williams' offensive rating in 138 total minutes this season to make a similar point, when the correct conclusion should be that it's a really noisy stat, meaningless for the purpose they're trying to use it for.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Flip hasn't been super productive tonight.

 

[str8line]

Nice patient setup by Ace for Flip. We may have hit the lottery with him.

 

[AK47]

Ace shows something new every night. His handles are getting much better.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think eventually Ace is going to be better than Lauri. He might not be the same pure volume scorer that Lauri is, but he's got more handle and shift off the dribble. He'll be able to create for himself.

 

[Doc Cherno]

That’s some bull with Brice’s three.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The refs took away a bucket from Brice. Not sure why. Brice is still 1-7.

 

[MT Steve]

The refs took away a bucket from Brice. Not sure why. Brice is still 1-7.

We're playing the Lakers.

 

[KqWIN]

????

Cody didn't tank the offense because it wasn't tanked with him on the court.

Calling it a small sample size is using it to predict whether the Jazz will continue to have an ok offense with him on the court. That's my opinion, but I could be wrong.

But you don't know what the alternative would be if he wasn't on the court. If Cody was not playing the offensive rating could have been even higher. If you cause performance to go from good to average, that's still tanking the offense. It works in the opposite way as well. For example, if you think Cody is helping the defense, the defensive rating can still be worse when he's on the court. If you have the capacity to understand how Cody can be a defensive positive despite a bad defensive rating you should understand how he can be tanking the offense despite a fine offensive on court rating.

Calling it a SSS is not only to predict what will happen in the future, but also calls into speculation how much you can attribute +/- to a specific player.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think eventually Ace is going to be better than Lauri. He might not be the same pure volume scorer that Lauri is, but he's got more handle and shift off the dribble. He'll be able to create for himself.

Let's wait til Ace successfully scores off a dribble drive or draws a shooting foul ok a drive before saying that

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Collier has been horribble in the halfcourt

was excellent in the first half in the halfcourt.

 

[KqWIN]

Austin Reaves unstoppable move = run into defense.

 

[str8line]

Collier slow in getting the ball to Ace there wrecked his shot rhythm. Ace looked at him like WTF?

 

[SoberasHotRod]

But you don't know what the alternative would be if he wasn't on the court. If Cody was not playing the offensive rating could have been even higher. If you cause performance to go from good to average, that's still tanking the offense. It works in the opposite way as well. For example, if you think Cody is helping the defense, the defensive rating can still be worse when he's on the court. If you have the capacity to understand how Cody can be a defensive positive despite a bad defensive rating,

Calling it a SSS is not only to predict what will happen in the future, but also calls into speculation how much you can attribute +/- to a specific player.

That's not my point though. I'm not saying Cody is a good offensive player or that he makes our offense better. I'm not saying the offense couldn't be better with someone else taking his minutes. My point has been that he's not a tank commander, in the sense that he singlehandedly loses us games, which is the reason some posters think he should continue to play.

Up until last game he hadn't been so severely affecting our offense that he was single handedly losing us games. I don't think that's opinion.