Now for some realistic optimism

[actusreus]

The optimism: The Clippers basically suck. They should have blown us out last night, given the circumstances. They won by 8, and couldn't stretch a lead. We should win this series in six without Rudy, five with.

The reality: I really really like Gordon Hayward, but sometimes his game seems invisible. I think he's a great NBA player, and any team in the league would be happy to have him. But after the last two games -- games where we really needed him to play his best basketball -- I've determined there are definitely worse things for this fanbase than Gordon leaving this summer. Far from irreplaceable.

 

[LogGrad98]

Gordon kind of showed his lack of clutch when he missed that momentum-swinging wide open 3. That is the shot the super-stars just knock down. He missed, and missed badly. Realistically it is probably just the law of averages, but it sure seems we don't have "that guy" on this team.

 

[jope]

Small sample size, but Hay has never shot > 40% in a playoff game in his career. hopefully that changes SOON.

 

[Michaelr]

" that guy" is riding pine with a bum knee

 

[NAOS]

Gordon has been pretty great in games 1 and 2.

 

[jope]

Gordon has been pretty great in games 1 and 2.

Hes had good points and bad points, but he has the lowest BPM on the team at -3.4.. Not to say he isnt useful, but he is playing really poorly for him.

 

[NAOS]

Hes had good points and bad points, but he has the lowest BPM on the team at -3.4.. Not to say he isnt useful, but he is playing really poorly for him.

context matters. And I think BPM only scratches the surface of context here.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Gordon kind of showed his lack of clutch when he missed that momentum-swinging wide open 3. That is the shot the super-stars just knock down. He missed, and missed badly. Realistically it is probably just the law of averages, but it sure seems we don't have "that guy" on this team.

That was practically his only open shot of the game (and he literally just hit a shot directly before that shot, so was he "that guy" for that shot?). Hard for him to really get a rhythm. He had hit 3 extremely tough pull up 3's between Mbah and Jordan in the 1st half. Clippers do a good job of neutralizing his mid-range game with their length and athleticism covering the PNR. That's why I think they should run more high PNR for Hayward and get him attacking down hill.

And Joe Johnson, the guy we praise as being the most clutch on the team, missed at least 3 wide open 3's. Point is, no one shoots 100% even on open 3's.

 

[jope]

context matters. And I think BPM only scratches the surface of context here.

sure, he's been a steady rebounder, when that's something we've needed badly. Made some good passes. but hes been lost on defense a lot, which is the frustrating thing for me. i understand he's not going to look for his shot all that much, especially when he's face guarded or double teamed all night, but usually he is a force defensively, and it hasn't really been evident in this series. He has the highest usage rate on the team, while simultaneously having some of the lowest efficiency numbers, including the second worst defensive rating and the second worst offensive rating. there is a lot of room for improvement, and if he plays up to where he has most of the season, we win going away.

 

[NAOS]

sure, he's been a steady rebounder, when that's something we've needed badly. Made some good passes. but hes been lost on defense a lot, which is the frustrating thing for me. i understand he's not going to look for his shot all that much, especially when he's face guarded or double teamed all night, but usually he is a force defensively, and it hasn't really been evident in this series. He has the highest usage rate on the team, while simultaneously having some of the lowest efficiency numbers, including the second worst defensive rating and the second worst offensive rating. there is a lot of room for improvement, and if he plays up to where he has most of the season, we win going away.

You mean if he plays up to where he has all season next to Rudy Gobert?

I'm not fawning over Gordon's performances in games 1 and 2, but I'll push back on anybody who puts forward a facile argument stating that he's a problem.

 

[Stoked]

Snyder needs to find a way to get him easier midrange shots but Hayward is over 40% from 3 has 8 rpg and 2.5 apg and is 100% from the line for the series.

 

[jope]

You mean if he plays up to where he has all season next to Rudy Gobert?

I'm not fawning over Gordon's performances in games 1 and 2, but I'll push back on anybody who puts forward a facile argument stating that he's a problem.

you said he's been "pretty great" and i said he has a lot of room for improvement. be real.

 

[Elizah Huge]

That was practically his only open shot of the game (and he literally just hit a shot directly before that shot, so was he "that guy" for that shot?). Hard for him to really get a rhythm. He had hit 3 extremely tough pull up 3's between Mbah and Jordan in the 1st half. Clippers do a good job of neutralizing his mid-range game with their length and athleticism covering the PNR. That's why I think they should run more high PNR for Hayward and get him attacking down hill.

And Joe Johnson, the guy we praise as being the most clutch on the team, missed at least 3 wide open 3's. Point is, no one shoots 100% even on open 3's.

This x 100.

It's hilarious how people expect every shot to go in. Hayward has played amazing the first two games. His rebounding saved us in Game 1 and he was the leading scorer in Game 2.

Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[NAOS]

you said he's been "pretty great" and i said he has a lot of room for improvement. be real.

you be real. The dude is the one consistent thing the Clippers have left to key on. TIA

 

[jope]

you be real. The dude is the one consistent thing the Clippers have left to key on. TIA

whats your point? all star players are "keyed on" in the playoffs. he needs to overcome that. Both his offensive and defensive contributions have been subpar, and the metrics reflect it. To blindly say he's been "great" is naive at best.

 

[actusreus]

Come on, he hasn't been "great," using any metric. He's worked very hard, that's pretty clear. But he hasn't been able to navigate his way to a great game in the face of being specifically keyed in on by the other team. However, the comments mentioning the absence of Rudy affecting Gordon are well taken. He's much better when Gobert is on the floor, as almost any first option would be. Maybe that's all it is. If that's the case, then the true reality check is just that Hayward is not a transcendent talent, which, candidly, everyone already knew, in which case, I was too hard on him before. But I stand by my original position, which is that if he leaves, it's not the worst thing ever. Realistically, you could insert a dozen other players into his spot these last two games, and although we'd lose the hair, the numbers would be very similar.

 

[MoTappin]

Gordon kind of showed his lack of clutch when he missed that momentum-swinging wide open 3. That is the shot the super-stars just knock down. He missed, and missed badly. Realistically it is probably just the law of averages, but it sure seems we don't have "that guy" on this team.

That was a total letdown. After the steal and when he pulled up to shoot that, I though "OHHH...here's the momentum shift we've been waiting 43 minutes for." And then he air-balled it. Frustrating for him, but a big letdown for us, too. I love the guy. I'm glad he's on our team and I want him to stay. But I also want to see him with more tenacity, more desire to win, more fire the belly. I'm sure he has that desire inside, but I wanna see him demonstrate it so we can all see it. I'd love to see him get a technical just once at a fired-up moment, but I don't remember him ever getting one.

 

[NAOS]

whats your point? all star players are "keyed on" in the playoffs. he needs to overcome that. Both his offensive and defensive contributions have been subpar, and the metrics reflect it. To blindly say he's been "great" is naive at best.

Metrics. Is that what you're calling what you've cited? I'm pretty sure that rule number 1 in sports stats is to not take an n of 2 very seriously. The eyeball is more reliable at this point. Hayward has either been good or pretty great considering the circumstances. You choose.

 

[actusreus]

Okay, I choose "pretty good." Btw, here's it in microcosm: You remember the play, I think it was in the first half, where Gordon plowed into Paul Pierce and got the call? He immediately reached out to Pierce in a concilliatory way. Pierce didn't respond. You know why? Because Pierce has always been a douche on the court, and he couldn't understand why someone would want to be friends in that situation. I wish Gordon were more like that. He trained with Kobe, and maybe learned his turn-around, but never learned how to be a prick to the other players like Kobe always was. He needs that. Basically just attitude.

 

[Tom Pitt]

The optimism: The Clippers basically suck. They should have blown us out last night, given the circumstances. They won by 8, and couldn't stretch a lead. We should win this series in six without Rudy, five with.

The reality: I really really like Gordon Hayward, but sometimes his game seems invisible. I think he's a great NBA player, and any team in the league would be happy to have him. But after the last two games -- games where we really needed him to play his best basketball -- I've determined there are definitely worse things for this fanbase than Gordon leaving this summer. Far from irreplaceable.

I think the Jazz win last night if they had Rudy. Without Rudy the Clippers are better than we are. They just have more talent. I think we're better coached which gives us a little bit if a chance but I'm nit sure we can beat them 3 more times without Gobert

Also, I think Gordon will always struggle against long athletic defenders. He doesnt have the elite physical tools to be great against them. That said, he'll still find ways to be effective because he plays with heart and he's smart.