Obamacare to increase premiums by 304 percent???

[green]

It's nice living in a country with 30 million people tbh

This makes me so angry. I am so sick of countries that sit around and bag on America because they don't sink any money in their military so they can pay for social programs (which I agree with). The problem I have is this: The second you have any trouble you expect our military to step in and protect you. I'm so done with all of that.

I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need to go back to pre-WWII attitudes...shut down our borders, tax everything that comes in from overseas up the wazoo, and protect ourselves. Save our money for our people. Let the middle east and Africa police themselves. They don't want us there anyways. Tell the rest of the world that we will continue to participate in the UN, but we will only match dollar for dollar whatever the highest contributing country puts in (for example, if Great Britain puts in 5 million and France does 6, we will do 6 as well).

If we did that, the rest of the world would be BEGGING us to come back within 6 months and the US would go back to being BY FAR, the most powerful nation in the world.

 

[moevillini]

heyhey

Franklin has raised the most poignant argument thus far.

Boomers are the most self centered generation this country will probably ever see. You all were given one of the best educations in the world but the one you provide for your children and grand children doesn't even break the top 20.

hold on there, do you know for a fact that the boomer generation is the majority in Congress and the Senate? I think a fair number of them were born after 1964....

if I can, I'll try to do a little bit of research on that

EDIT: OK, here's a little bit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators_by_age
As of September 25, 2013, 2 senators are in their 80s, 20 are in their 70s, 37 are in their 60s, 30 are in their 50s, and 11 are in their 40s. (10 were born after 1964, and one was born Nov 1964)

 

[Deleted member 848]

This makes me so angry. I am so sick of countries that sit around and bag on America because they don't sink any money in their military so they can pay for social programs (which I agree with). The problem I have is this: The second you have any trouble you expect our military to step in and protect you. I'm so done with all of that.

I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need to go back to pre-WWII attitudes...shut down our borders, tax everything that comes in from overseas up the wazoo, and protect ourselves. Save our money for our people. Let the middle east and Africa police themselves. They don't want us there anyways. Tell the rest of the world that we will continue to participate in the UN, but we will only match dollar for dollar whatever the highest contributing country puts in (for example, if Great Britain puts in 5 million and France does 6, we will do 6 as well).

If we did that, the rest of the world would be BEGGING us to come back within 6 months and the US would go back to being BY FAR, the most powerful nation in the world.

Sever connections with Canada? So the US can axe its main oil, and water-resource for the coming years?

Yup, we all know that's never gonna happen. Gonna keep enjoying my healthcare and cheap education in the mean-time. Thanks Merica

 

[Stoked]

Sever connections with Canada? So the US can axe its main oil, and water-resource for the coming years?

Yup, we all know that's never gonna happen. Gonna keep enjoying my healthcare and cheap education in the mean-time. Thanks Merica

We have enough of our own if we'd just use it.

 

[JimLes]

This makes me so angry. I am so sick of countries that sit around and bag on America because they don't sink any money in their military so they can pay for social programs (which I agree with). The problem I have is this: The second you have any trouble you expect our military to step in and protect you. I'm so done with all of that.

Without America, vast majority of world's conflicts simply would not happen.

 

[Stoked]

Without America, vast majority of world's conflicts simply would not happen.

Hahaha. Like hell. They would happen with or without America. America's involvement merely changes how it plays out.

 

[JimLes]

Hahaha. Like hell. They would happen with or without America. America's involvement merely changes how it plays out.

When a few hotheads grab guns and try to overthrow their government, it's not a conflict. Giving them weapons and other kinds of support turns it into one.

 

[Stoked]

When a few hotheads grab guns and try to overthrow their government, it's not a conflict. Giving them weapons and other kinds of support turns it into one.

Oh so basically this argument goes by whatever standards that you think are appropriate. Thanks for letting the Syrians know, especially those that died, that without America their struggle was not a conflict.

Also Vietnam, ww 1, ww 2, African massacres, Kosovo...all happen without American involvement. True it plays out differently but it still plays out.

Your stance is basically your opinion and is backed by nothing.

 

[JimLes]

Oh so basically this argument goes by whatever standards that you think are appropriate. Thanks for letting the Syrians know, especially those that died, that without America their struggle was not a conflict.

Also Vietnam, ww 1, ww 2, African massacres, Kosovo...all happen without American involvement. True it plays out differently but it still plays out.

Your stance is basically your opinion and is backed by nothing.

Who the **** is talking about WW1 here? Why are you putting words in my mouth? I'm talking about the last 20 years. For a reason, too. That's when the US became world's only superpower.

My argument is this. US involvement in all kids of places in the past 20 years has only served to widen and broaden the fighting. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Kosovo. In all those cases, the governments of those countries would have dealt with what was going on quickly and brutally. We're not debating the morality of it here.

 

[Stoked]

Without America, vast majority of world's conflicts simply would not happen.

Who the **** is talking about WW1 here? Why are you putting words in my mouth? I'm talking about the last 20 years. For a reason, too. That's when the US became world's only superpower.

My argument is this. US involvement in all kids of places in the past 20 years has only served to widen and broaden the fighting. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Kosovo. In all those cases, the governments of those countries would have dealt with what was going on quickly and brutally. We're not debating the morality of it here.

As you can see from your initial post it had nothing to do with "the last 20 years". You blamed America for the majority of the world's conflicts.

The conflict would remain in every one of those cases. American involvement clearly changes the conflict, as you admit with "widen and broaden the fighting", but the fighting already exists. That is by its definition, conflict.

If this is all you have than I have no interest continuing this asinine conversation.

 

[franklin]

Who the **** is talking about WW1 here? Why are you putting words in my mouth? I'm talking about the last 20 years. For a reason, too. That's when the US became world's only superpower.

My argument is this. US involvement in all kids of places in the past 20 years has only served to widen and broaden the fighting. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Kosovo. In all those cases, the governments of those countries would have dealt with what was going on quickly and brutally. We're not debating the morality of it here.

You know, at the end of the day I trust the people with the big board. I just wish I we got to see the big board. It's like a soap opera to us Americans. That and we want to feel comforted that we aren't becoming the bad guys.

Thanks for a bit of oil though.

 

[JimLes]

The conflict would remain in every one of those cases. American involvement clearly changes the conflict, as you admit with "widen and broaden the fighting", but the fighting already exists. That is by its definition, conflict.

Ok, so your definition of conflict is now every possible issue in the world? Armed conflict is suddenly the same thing as non-armed conflict? Brutal, prolonged wars are the same thing as low-level uprisings and coups? And I'm being asinine here?

Since you want to nit-pick and analyze every words, how about I put it this way then. American involvement around the globe has caused unnecessary armed conflict where there weren't any, and made those that were already happening worse. And in general, it's made a world a much ****tier place the last 20 years. How's that?

 

[LogGrad98]

Yes, if we hadn't intervened in Iraq their government would have gone on killing their own people at a horrendous rate. 2.5 mill of his own people Sadam killed. Americans are evil.

 

[♪alt13]

hold on there, do you know for a fact that the boomer generation is the majority in Congress and the Senate? I think a fair number of them were born after 1964....

if I can, I'll try to do a little bit of research on that

EDIT: OK, here's a little bit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators_by_age
As of September 25, 2013, 2 senators are in their 80s, 20 are in their 70s, 37 are in their 60s, 30 are in their 50s, and 11 are in their 40s. (10 were born after 1964, and one was born Nov 1964)

They do what gets them elected and boomers do that. Congressmen and Senators are only giving boomers what they asked for.

 

[infection]

We need to allow Rn's to open offices without direct supervision by a doctor and refer patients that are beyond their care to a P.H.D.

Are you familiar with the healthcare system?

 

[LogGrad98]

Are you familiar with the legal system?

Fixed.

 

[♪alt13]

Are you familiar with the healthcare system?

I don't know about other states but I am fairly certain you can't open a family practice in Utah if you're not a doctor. I remember a bill being proposed a few years ago to allow RN's to do this and get their own malpractice insurance. I thought it was a good idea and then I never heard anything more about it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't know about other states but I am fairly certain you can't open a family practice in Utah if you're not a doctor. I remember a bill being proposed a few years ago to allow RN's to do this and get their own malpractice insurance. I thought it was a good idea and then I never heard anything more about it.

PA would be an option maybe, but I have a hard time seeing a RN in that role.

 

[babe]

The only truly effective way to manage the cost of healthcare is through supply and demand. Right now the demand is too high and the supply is too low. We need to allow Rn's to open offices without direct supervision by a doctor and refer patients that are beyond their care to a P.H.D. As for the demand we need to increase the amount everyone pays out of pocket both those enrolled in medicaid and those who have private plans. We should make both a mandatory minimum deductible and copay based on your income(you would have to pay this before an insurer could pay anything)

I also think that we should have public ambulances ran by municipalities. The fire department does a superb job and I have little doubt that if they ran our ambulances they would do the same. This doesn't have to be done nationwide to have an impact. If Salt Lake county were to begin operating tax payer supported ambulances residents would see a decrease in their insurance premiums because some of the financial risk has been removed.

The State. . . . as well as cities and nations. . . . . is always going to prove incompetent. Individuals can be incompetent, too, but at least they are not all the same kind of incompetent. There should be no medical license requirement at all, just a public record of complaints against every "provider". And maybe about ten on-line "Lists" where somebody with a definite point of view is just free to say what he/she thinks of local providers, with people relating their experiences . . . . we'll figure out what works.

 

[babe]

I don't know about other states but I am fairly certain you can't open a family practice in Utah if you're not a doctor. I remember a bill being proposed a few years ago to allow RN's to do this and get their own malpractice insurance. I thought it was a good idea and then I never heard anything more about it.

We have nursing agencies working on contract with doctors and hospitals to give certain kinds of outpatient care. They will come to your home and clean the wounds from surgery, help patients manage with vacuum pacs that keep the healing areas drained, stuff like that.

In this day and age, you can send the actual caregivers to the patients, with cameras and laptops, and if the doctor in the main office needs to "see" the patient, he can see anything he needs to. Saves gas and oil and worn-out cars, makes the earth "green".