Game Thread Oct 19, 2023 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Kings (Preseason)

[Bawse Dawg]

Like I though Hendricks looked fast, and big and athletic and had a smooth looking shot in pre season. But I would way rather have him go 10-15 for 28 points and 12 rebounds and 3 blocks instead.

How does he possibly put up that statline without showing exciting flashes of talent? You are acting like the two things are at odds with each other.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How does he possibly put up that statline without showing exciting flashes of talent? You are acting like the two things are at odds with each other.

Yeah, you can go like 3/5 and do it looking kind of crappy, but you aren't dropping an efficient 28-12-3 by accident.

But Fish gonna Fish

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And Hendricks hasn't made a single athletic play all preseason.

 

[HermanG]

The Jazz will lose badly to the great teams and beat the bottom dwellers and be competitive with everyone else. We are going to be gimmicky with our lineups the whole season.

Thats a wild prediction since its absolutely opposite from what we saw last season.

We lost our series against only 5 West teams: 1-2 vs Kings, 1-2 vs Suns, 1-3 vs Mavs, 1-3 vs Blazers and 1-3 vs Thunder. So all of our 1-3 series were against lottery teams. We also split our series with Spurs.

We gave the top teams a hard time but had a hard time ourselves against mediocre and bottom teams.

Also almost all our losses were close. The only team who beat us badly twice last season were the Bucks.

 

[fishonjazz]

How does he possibly put up that statline without showing exciting flashes of talent? You are acting like the two things are at odds with each other.

Im saying that if he wasn't looking athletic and making amazing plays but producing good numbers by just playing sound fundamentals then I would be happier. I like production. Even when its simple basic easy stuff.

 

[fishonjazz]

And Hendricks hasn't made a single athletic play all preseason.

Yep. And I wouldnt care if he was scoring and rebounding nicely.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Im saying that if he wasn't looking athletic and making amazing plays but producing good numbers by just playing sound fundamentals then I would be happier. I like production. Even when its simple basic easy stuff.

 

[KqWIN]

Have to say, if Hendricks busted out the 37 year old Dirk package and produced without looking athletic I would be DAMN impressed.

 

[whatthe]

Thats a wild prediction since its absolutely opposite from what we saw last season.

We lost our series against only 5 West teams: 1-2 vs Kings, 1-2 vs Suns, 1-3 vs Mavs, 1-3 vs Blazers and 1-3 vs Thunder. So all of our 1-3 series were against lottery teams. We also split our series with Spurs.

We gave the top teams a hard time but had a hard time ourselves against mediocre and bottom teams.

Also almost all our losses were close. The only team who beat us badly twice last season were the Bucks.

I think we are more gimmicky with the roster construction this year than last year. It is just a guess so we will see.

 

[fishonjazz]

Have to say, if Hendricks busted out the 37 year old Dirk package and produced without looking athletic I would be DAMN impressed.

Exactly. I loved dirks game. also loved stocktons game. Mainly because they were very productive. Would have been great if they were really athletic too though. I get why someone might prefer a guy looking like he belongs in the nba physically and mentally more than a guy who is putting up numbers. That preference makes sense to me and isn't controversial. Its weird to me that preferring a guy to put up numbers over looking the part is controversial though. I think both things are good things. I just tend to like one more than the other and some people like the other more than what I like. Not a big deal imo.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think Hendricks will really benefit from the G-League. I'm not 100% sure why, maybe it's just hope.

We are going to have live with Keyonte having some bad games and most likely being a net negative for the season.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Exactly. I loved dirks game. also loved stocktons game. Mainly because they were very productive. Would have been great if they were really athletic too though. I get why someone might prefer a guy looking like he belongs in the nba physically and mentally more than a guy who is putting up numbers. That preference makes sense to me and isn't controversial. Its weird to me that preferring a guy to put up numbers over looking the part is controversial though. I think both things are good things. I just tend to like one more than the other and some people like the other more than what I like. Not a big deal imo.

I think it's just you not acknowledging that to consistently put up nice numbers he would also need to be flashing talent, right? Like what's the scenario where he puts up great numbers but is doing nothing exciting on the court? Even the sound fundamentals to get some baskets you mentioned would be talent and skill that we haven't really seen displayed yet.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I think Hendricks will really benefit from the G-League.

Not sure any NBA caliber player really benefits from the G League. The level of competition there is terrible.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think it's just you not acknowledging that to consistently put up nice numbers he would also need to be flashing talent, right? Like what's the scenario where he puts up great numbers but is doing nothing exciting on the court? Even the sound fundamentals to get some baskets you mentioned would be talent and skill that we haven't really seen displayed yet.

I posted some poor stats of brandon miller. You responded: I'm definitely more interested in flashes than straight stats, especially preseason. I've seen Miller make some crazy athletic plays, and that's the kind of stuff that I'm looking for in preseason.
That seems to indicate that you are more interested in flashes and crazy athletic plays. That those things are the things you are looking for in pre season.
I simply responded by saying that I prefer production. I do. I just like really good numbers more than crazy athletic plays and flashes. If the numbers come from crazy athletic plays and flashes then all the better but if they come in boring ways then thats cool too. I think you preferring the flashes and crazy athletic plays is fine too. No biggie to me.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I posted some poor stats of brandon miller. You responded: I'm definitely more interested in flashes than straight stats, especially preseason. I've seen Miller make some crazy athletic plays, and that's the kind of stuff that I'm looking for in preseason.
That seems to indicate that you are more interested in flashes and crazy athletic plays. That those things are the things you are looking for in pre season.
I simply responded by saying that I prefer production. I do. I just like really good numbers more than crazy athletic plays and flashes. If the numbers come from crazy athletic plays and flashes then all the better but if they come in boring ways then thats cool too. I think you preferring the flashes and crazy athletic plays is fine too. No biggie to me.

Do you see how a very young rookie could put up bad stat lines in the preseason, but show enough things on the court to still look intriguing or have you buying into their potential? That makes perfect sense to me and happens all the time.

You seem to be saying that you like the inverse, and I just don't think the inverse even exists. Cy mentioned that a player could put up an unexciting but technically efficient 3/5 or whatever. Other than that caveat, I really don't know how a young player could possibly be putting up good production numbers but not also flashing potential and talent.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Flashes talent, bad numbers - Very possible
Flashes no talent, puts up good numbers - When has that ever happened?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Do you see how a very young rookie could put up bad stat lines in the preseason, but show enough things on the court to still look intriguing or have you buying into their potential? That makes perfect sense to me and happens all the time.

You seem to be saying that you like the inverse, and I just don't think the inverse even exists. Cy mentioned that a player could put up an unexciting but technically efficient 3/5 or whatever. Other than that caveat, I really don't know how a young player could possibly be putting up good production numbers but not also flashing potential and talent.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Flashes talent, bad numbers - Very possible
Flashes no talent, puts up good numbers - When has that ever happened?

You're talking ball with a guy who knows no ball

 

[fishonjazz]

Do you see how a very young rookie could put up bad stat lines in the preseason, but show enough things on the court to still look intriguing or have you buying into their potential? That makes perfect sense to me and happens all the time.

You seem to be saying that you like the inverse, and I just don't think the inverse even exists. Cy mentioned that a player could put up an unexciting but technically efficient 3/5 or whatever. Other than that caveat, I really don't know how a young player could possibly be putting up good production numbers but not also flashing potential and talent.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Flashes talent, bad numbers - Very possible
Flashes no talent, puts up good numbers - When has that ever happened?

I will explain it a different way. harold minor and gerald green showed hella flashes and athletic plays that made me say wow. Zach randolph did not but put up good numbers. I prefer zach randolph to harold minor and gerald green.

I just really like good production. If i comes in a flashy way like a jason tatum? awesome. If it comes from dirk or zach randolph. Super cool. If the numbers aren't there (like brandon millers game last night) then im not very happy or excited.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I will explain it a different way. harold minor and gerald green showed hella flashes and athletic plays that made me say wow. Zach randolph did not but put up good numbers. I prefer zach randolph to harold minor and gerald green.

I just really like good production. If i comes in a flashy way like a jason tatum? awesome. If it comes from dirk or zach randolph. Super cool. If the numbers aren't there (like brandon millers game last night) then im not very happy or excited.

You have to be trying to miss the point.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I will explain it a different way. harold minor and gerald green showed hella flashes and athletic plays that made me say wow. Zach randolph did not but put up good numbers. I prefer zach randolph to harold minor and gerald green.

I just really like good production. If i comes in a flashy way like a jason tatum? awesome. If it comes from dirk or zach randolph. Super cool. If the numbers aren't there (like brandon millers game last night) then im not very happy or excited.

But the point really only works if Randolph and Dirk were not showing exciting potential and ability to be good NBA players in those games, which isn’t the case. Even if they weren’t jumping out of the gym.

Production AND talent is preferable (this is where you would put your ZBo and Dirk examples)

Talent with no production can still show you something, especially in the preseason before dudes are even 20 years old. (Green and Minor go here, but so do a million others. Many successful, many not)

Production with no talent is the one where I really can’t think of any examples.

 

[oldtimer]

Not sure any NBA caliber player really benefits from the G League. The level of competition there is terrible.

the g league is not terrible. most of the players in the G league have a flaw in their game. not athletic enough, not tall enough, not fast enough, no defence. however one thing they all have in common is they play their asses off. they play hard. they foul more. every game matters to them. players can learn a lot getting playing time in the G league espicially if they have the physical gifts.