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Roe v. Wade is going down

Why wouldn't it be a hostile Justice? Everyone is partisan, the Supreme court has been hijacked by this ruling for 35 plus years.
Fun fact, most Evangelicals supported Roe V Wade when it first came out. It wasn’t until the late 70s when Paul Weyrich joined forces with Jerry Falwell and Ralph Reed as they figured out that they could use abortion as a political issue to join Catholics and evangelicals in the “Christian Right” against civil rights. Since then, abortion has metastasized as one of the major forms of glue holding their coalition together.

 
Another fun fact? Abortion was legal throughout the United States up until the late 19th century. It wasn’t until birth control and women’s suffrage came out that suddenly men began to care about abortion.

Again, this issue is all about restoring the hierarchy. White Christian males on top. Women, blacks, the LGBTs below.
 
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How many other states have idiotic laws like this that will return to be the law of the land once Roe is struck down?


View: https://twitter.com/elissaslotkin/status/1521311942534705155?s=21&t=k-4IAhqetH-QfVtH_T9xnA


It’s too easy to say, “codify abortion” at the federal level when knowing that the votes aren’t there and then ignore the real suffering that will occur due to state’s having these types of laws already codified.

For those of you wondering, abortion is essentially banned in Utah. So if your wife, daughter, sister, etc becomes pregnant, they better give birth 9 months later or they risk being investigated for getting an abortion. And the legislature is looking to get rid of exceptions too, that would force rape victims to carry full term.
Without Roe v. Wade, abortion rights would be left up to the states to decide, and members of Utah’s Legislature have already made it clear how they feel. In 2020, then-Gov. Gary Herbert signed a so-called trigger law, with further, currently illegal restrictions on abortions set to go into effect if Roe is overturned.

SB174 prohibits abortions in most cases, but it does allow exceptions if the mother’s life is at risk, if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest, or if two physicians who practice “maternal fetal medicine” both determine that the fetus “has a defect that is uniformly diagnosable and uniformly lethal or ... has a severe brain abnormality that is uniformly diagnosable.” Although exceptions are currently in place, the Utah Republican Party has signaled it may want to see even more restrictions in the future. A proposed platform amendment introduced last month would remove the language making exceptions to preserve the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
 
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Where was it that recently a woman was prosecuted for having a miscarriage? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Texas?
She miscarried but was prosecuted for it. The prosecutors eventually dropped charges. But she’s still left with legal fees. And the social ostracism. Imagine trying to go back to work after having your name dragged through the mud.

Is this really the society we want to live in folks???
 
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There are three things about this that I find interesting, and the “right” of women to snuff out a human life while remaining free from any legal consequence for that act is the least interesting.
I suppose it's not interesting at all that only men get the right of self-defense.

Interesting thing #1:
Roe v. Wade was the most egregious power grab by a branch of our government in the last century.
To whom did it give power, precisely?

There is nothing in the constitution about abortion and the 10th amendment specifically says that if it ain’t in the constitution then the federal government, including the Supreme Court, has no power in the matter.
Both the 9th and 10th say some of these rights belong to the people, not the states, which is where Roe v Wade put this decision.

For all those who have recently decried that “our democracy is in danger”, you should be extremely happy for this decision. If you are not then you are a hypocrite who has been revealed as willing to say anything you think gives you power to enact things you want.
For all that have protested the supposed lack of free speech on platforms like Twitter, you should be horrified by a decision that will limit personal rights.

The person or persons who leaked this draft must be identified and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Would that you felt the same about people who brought zip ties into the halls of Congress.

Young women may need to travel a bit farther but otherwise nothing but some convenience is being taken from them.
1) Some states are making it illegal to help a person travel for an abortion.
2) The level of privilege here is staggering. Poor people in the center of Texas or Montana don't find it easy to travel.
 
Some really good threads, you’re welcome


View: https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1521554745290375168?s=21&t=AxWZnNG-hMt8PvD4SfzATA

Gee, why are they focusing on the leak and not the content of the opinion? Did the dog finally catch the car and is afraid of taking responsibility for it?


View: https://twitter.com/caitlinpacific/status/1521554110033514496?s=21&t=AxWZnNG-hMt8PvD4SfzATA



View: https://twitter.com/gpgomez/status/1521476229521719298?s=21&t=AxWZnNG-hMt8PvD4SfzATA


The history of abortion in America is actually really fascinating:

View: https://twitter.com/jackiantonovich/status/1506956968002523141?s=21&t=j7TSi8opNDlaqt1bj5Qk3A
 
Isn't it odd that we can tell women what to do with their bodies and force them to carry children born of rape, incest, etc., but god help those same individuals who require people to get a vaccine in an arm echoing 'my body, my right'?

Let's just call it what it is: a push to continue to place religious Christian beliefs onto others regardless if they believe in those virtues or not.

And any ruling will not eliminate abortions - those that want or need them will simply go to states that permit them and/or take unsafe measures that will put their own lives in danger.
I believe the crux of the abortion debate lies in the difference of belief of where human rights begin, or when you can call the new life an actual human being with human rights like everyone else. Some believe they begin at conception. Others at birth. Still others at somewhere in between. If human rights begin at conception then abortion should be extremely rare and only under very specific circumstances, such as rape or incest, etc. If they begin at birth then any abortion including late-term are fine. If they begin somewhere in between then that is the huge gray area in all this. Unfortunately this is something we will never ever get consensus on.

I for one believe that human rights should begin as soon as a fetus would be viable outside the womb with medical care. Before that and there can still be miscarriages etc and it hasn't developed enough to be considered a "human" life, any more than a tumor. But at that point the choice for abortion should not be allowed as that is a human child and it deserves the same protection as any other life in our country.

Many others believe differently.

I am not in a position to render judgement, so I do not do so. I fairly recently (in the last year or so) spoke at length to a family member (niece) who decided to get an abortion when she became pregnant from her boyfriend and they decided they could not take care of the child. They agonized over going through with the pregnancy and giving it up for adoption. They talked about the damage to her body, to their lifestyle, even their jobs as she would have to miss significant time, even with an adoption. In the end they determined it was too much a disruption and that they couldn't deal with the emotional toll of giving up a child as opposed to aborting a fetus before they believed it was human life, so it sat better on their conscience.

This is no light decision. I do not envy anyone in a position that they feel they need to make this decision. I do wish more people would use birth control (my niece had missed her shot and they didn't use a condom and that was why they got pregnant). Of course it can fail but it is better odds than not, and could curtail a lot abortions performed in our country.

I am not going to say one way or the other what they should do, although I am concerned if they shoot this down it will result in a lot of young women with bad options who do not have the means to travel to another state for this difficult procedure.

I wonder if there is a chance this gets codified as a constitutional amendment at some point. That would be the surest way to ensure this right is not taken away. But then the first debate I mentioned would be the hottest topic ever. When do we protect the rights of the fetus. I just cannot see this ever being ratified into the constitution as the emotions runs so strong on both sides.
 
@LogGrad98
I wonder if there is a chance this gets codified as a constitutional amendment at some point.
That would require 2/3rds of congress and 3/4ths of state legislatures to agree. I doubt you could get 2/3rds of congress and 3/4ths of state legislatures (especially if Fox News is threatening republicans with primaries) to agree that the sky is blue.
 
I believe the crux of the abortion debate lies in the difference of belief of where human rights begin, or when you can call the new life an actual human being with human rights like everyone else. Some believe they begin at conception. Others at birth. Still others at somewhere in between. If human rights begin at conception then abortion should be extremely rare and only under very specific circumstances, such as rape or incest, etc. If they begin at birth then any abortion including late-term are fine. If they begin somewhere in between then that is the huge gray area in all this. Unfortunately this is something we will never ever get consensus on.
Actually, if a new person is defined as occurring at the moment of conception. then the right to self-defense from this human also should begin there (speaking of how the law would read if it were consistent, at lest to me). You can't claim self-defense from a blob of tissue, but you can from a person.

I for one believe that human rights should begin as soon as a fetus would be viable outside the womb with medical care.
I would agree, in that they have the right to be born, as opposed to aborted.
 
Actually, if a new person is defined as occurring at the moment of conception. then the right to self-defense from this human also should begin there (speaking of how the law would read if it were consistent, at lest to me). You can't claim self-defense from a blob of tissue, but you can from a person.
And this is where the debates start, as in what obligations do the mother have to the child, what rights do the child have in regards to being born, being protected, is the child viewed as an attacker or as a victim, after all it didn't ask to be created, so it didn't force its way in, it happened as a result of actions far far beyond its control, as perhaps it was with the mother as well, does the constitution protect each equally, if the mother has a right to self-defense against the fetus does the fetus have the right of self-defense against being aborted, whereas it cannot realistically defend itself so do we have an obligation to defend it as we would a person who is of diminished capacity, or, in fact, a child that has already been born, and if the mother succeeds in defending herself against it, is it a crime, since the fetus had no capacity to defend itself, does the fetus at that point, being deemed human life, have a right to be born at all, etc. etc. Anyone can put forth their opinions on these questions, and use whatever logic they choose, but it still remains opinion.

These philosophical debates are virtually endless and realistically unsolvable. Science cannot provide answers to any of these questions, aside from the approximate point of viability outside the womb, and opinions will vary wildly, and for different reasons and motivations, and none any more valid than any others, excepting of course the wildly illogical ones.

And in the end it boils down to who should get to choose what happens in this situation. To me the answer is that it needs to be the mother, even if I disagree with any or all of the other arguments. I certainly cannot choose. "Science" cannot choose. The government certainly cannot choose. At least none of them know any better than the mother does in the circumstances. So regardless of my, or anyone's, feelings on the matter, realistically that choice, and all of its consequences, need to be left to the mother, or her guardian or caretaker if she is very young or incapacitated, but certainly not the courts nor the general populace nor the government. They don't know the answers any better than anyone else.

To be certain it is a complicated and emotionally-driven matter.
 
Anarchists are not leftists.
Vice is a left leaning publication



No one tried to make ivermectin illegal.
No one tried to make misoprostol illegal

Your argument on both statements were terrible and missed both targets. You have a hard time finding any humor in politics. That was the point of the post. It wasn’t going after any party or “side” lighten up.

I can’t wait for your weak response and tell me how I shouldn't take abortion lightly. Just relax and don’t get to outraged.
 
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Reproductive rights are just another way for men to exert power and control over women. If you own nothing in life you own your own body and what goes in and out of it. I suppose if women wanted that sort of freedom they should have been born as men yeah?
No. Men aren't allowed to kill humans either. Your argument is no different from saying you own your own arm along with your own trigger finger and should have the freedom use your body to shoot a gun at someone else's head because it is your arm. In the case of shooting someone in the head and ending the life of fetus, it is the life on the other end of that exchange that matters. You do not have the right to use your body to hold a gun and shoot it at someone else's head. Women should also not have the right to premeditate a killing, find a professional to do it, and end a human life without consequences. Men already couldn't do those things. Banning abortion is ending a barbaric practice. There is something deeply wrong about a society willing to sacrifice a human life for no purpose other than petty convenience.
 
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Roe could still be codified into federal law.
Not really. The constitution does not mention abortion which means that per the 10th Amendment the federal government does not have the power to have a say one way or the other. I predict that what would happen is that the Democrats will pass a law federally protecting the right to abortion. Then when they lose the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2024, the Republicans will repeal it and pass a nationwide ban on abortion. Then lawyers will immediately sue. It will go all the way to the Supreme Court where the federal ban will be struck down on 10th amendment grounds which will end both attempts to federally protect and federally ban abortion.
 
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...and force them to carry children born of rape, incest, etc.
Nice try but about 0% of abortions are due to rape, incest, etc. Roe v. Wade is about giving all women the right to end life, not just victims of rape, incest, etc.
 
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