Roster Balancing Guys

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jazz need to ask themselves what Lauri Markkanen would look like in Quin's system. Bulls just want a FRP and filler.

He's somewhat redundant with Bojan, but Bogey could also slide to the 3. Markkanen's size enables him to play some defense and grab rebounds.

I mean we can't accept a player in a sign and trade deal because of the apron... we can't really send out a first until 2045... he doesn't address any of our needs... IDK why his name should be here at all.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm really hoping this type of trade go through. It's not a bad thing to have too many scorers, but we desperately need more versatile players who can contribute in other ways. Bogey/Clarkson are good players, but we need that level of player who provides a different skillset.

Personally, I would focus on guys who can rotate, cover space, and play team defense over the perimeter stopper guys. Teams will hunt their preferred matchups through switches, and even elite on ball guys cannot hang with elite offensive players by themselves. LAC had multiple all-defense type perimeter defenders and they were still sending double teams on Mitchell. Same goes for PHI against Trae Young and really any matchup against an elite perimeter player. You have to double/help on these guys somehow. What matters most is how you recover and rotate back.

I think Kyle Anderson is perfect for this role. Everyone has been trying to find the next Draymond and IMO Anderson is the player who is the closest to being able to provide the same things. I love watching him play defense. He's got great length and defensive awareness which allows him to play disadvantaged situations so well. If there's a 2v3 on the weakside he'll always cover it and minimize the advantage the offense has. He's also fairly tough to score on when he's on the ball, but he's about as good as it gets in a scramble situation.

Other guys I like:

Nance
Thad
Hart (after Dec 15)

The Tony Allen lock down defenders are basically extinct. Guys are more skilled and the rules don't favor those types... though the level of physicality allowed in the playoffs for some guys is pretty wild when you look at how the regular season was called.

Its why I've wanted a disruptor. RoCo is good because he gets deflections and stuff but is almost a liability 1 on 1 at times. Anderson is pretty great on defense and likely under-rated still. I'd say in prior years he may have been waaaaayyyy under-rated. If they can't get an extension done for him he may be a guy they move.... similar to how they moved JV (the extension was a factor and they didn't want to pay him). The issue is we'd need a third team involved that gives them something they want. I think they'd want cheaper/younger players but maybe Bojan would address their needs well enough that they do a little bit of win-now rebalancing.

 

[KqWIN]

The Tony Allen lock down defenders are basically extinct. Guys are more skilled and the rules don't favor those types... though the level of physicality allowed in the playoffs for some guys is pretty wild when you look at how the regular season was called.

Its why I've wanted a disruptor. RoCo is good because he gets deflections and stuff but is almost a liability 1 on 1 at times. Anderson is pretty great on defense and likely under-rated still. I'd say in prior years he may have been waaaaayyyy under-rated. If they can't get an extension done for him he may be a guy they move.... similar to how they moved JV (the extension was a factor and they didn't want to pay him). The issue is we'd need a third team involved that gives them something they want. I think they'd want cheaper/younger players but maybe Bojan would address their needs well enough that they do a little bit of win-now rebalancing.

Yup, and even if you had a Tony Allen type lockdown defender, offenses seem to be in more control of who guards who these days because they can force switches.
Roco is a tough get because in theory he's what POR desperately needs, but that might change if Dame gets traded. But if Dame gets traded, they'd have no interest in Clarkson and Bogdanovic either.

I agree that Anderson is very underrated. I think his offense was pretty bad when he would shoot 3's, but he shot the ball well last year and he can still be dangerous in a closeout situation because of his passing and inside game. I think he'd actually be better than O'Neale/Covington is when his guy leaves to double. Not as good as a shooter, but way better at decision making. His defense is and has always been great.

It all depends on where MEM is and their goals as a franchise. They are a super young team, and I think the hardcore fans will always be on the side of staying young and developing everyone together. We freaking love player development. But ownership, players, coaches, and others inside of the organization tend to think a lot differently. MEM just made the playoffs and I doubt that there's many people in that org who are content with missing out and taking a step back. There's a sentiment out there that everyone is either all in for a championship or tanking, but the truth is that many teams still want to be competitive even if they probably can't win the chip. If MEM wants to stay competitive and cement themselves as a playoff team, they need more scoring and shooting. Bogey would be perfect for them. I'm honestly not sure they can make the playoffs without someone just like Bogey. GSW, NOP, SAC, and MIN all desperately want to make the playoffs and could pass them.

 

[infection]

How did this thread on roster balancing guys get this far without mentioning the only guy in the league with balance testing bonafides?

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I posted this in another thread, but fits here too:

Looking here: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
Here are the SG/SF with a Deffensive RAPTOR above 1.5 and a total RAPTOR above 2.0 (exluding stars) :

Derrick White, Nic Batum, Fred Van Vleet, Danny Green, Deanthony Melton, Bogdon Bogdonavic, Furkan Korkmaz, Derrick Rose, Jae Crowder, Kyle Anderson, OG Anunoby, Ben Simmons, Mattise Thybulle, Lu Dort, Jarred Vanderbilt, Robert Covington, Alex Caruso

 

[campaignist]

I feel like I'm becoming a broken record but Smart would be a one year rental, he's a free agent and wouldn't re-sign if he can't start (why would he? he can start on plenty of teams.) Trading JC for him is a terrible idea for that reason.

Anyone that just re-signed or was received in a trade should be disregarded unless they're bought out, their new teams aren't just going to turn around and move them. There's a reason why those teams acquired those dudes.

Kyle Anderson intrigues me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yup, and even if you had a Tony Allen type lockdown defender, offenses seem to be in more control of who guards who these days because they can force switches.
Roco is a tough get because in theory he's what POR desperately needs, but that might change if Dame gets traded. But if Dame gets traded, they'd have no interest in Clarkson and Bogdanovic either.

I agree that Anderson is very underrated. I think his offense was pretty bad when he would shoot 3's, but he shot the ball well last year and he can still be dangerous in a closeout situation because of his passing and inside game. I think he'd actually be better than O'Neale/Covington is when his guy leaves to double. Not as good as a shooter, but way better at decision making. His defense is and has always been great.

It all depends on where MEM is and their goals as a franchise. They are a super young team, and I think the hardcore fans will always be on the side of staying young and developing everyone together. We freaking love player development. But ownership, players, coaches, and others inside of the organization tend to think a lot differently. MEM just made the playoffs and I doubt that there's many people in that org who are content with missing out and taking a step back. There's a sentiment out there that everyone is either all in for a championship or tanking, but the truth is that many teams still want to be competitive even if they probably can't win the chip. If MEM wants to stay competitive and cement themselves as a playoff team, they need more scoring and shooting. Bogey would be perfect for them. I'm honestly not sure they can make the playoffs without someone just like Bogey. GSW, NOP, SAC, and MIN all desperately want to make the playoffs and could pass them.

With Memphis I think the JV for Adams deal (while I liked it for Memphis) showed a willingness to take a step back if need be. They may change their tune and they may want Clarke or Williams to be more in that Anderson role. I'm more intrigued on Melton for JC if they want a guy to score with the ball in his hands while Morant is out. Anderson is intriguing but the offensive step back could be pretty rough. I just am not sure what they are doing.

Honestly I want to see what rosters look like before looking too deep into trades... there has been so much movement and I'm still not sure who landed where.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Pascal... Nuf said. Get'r Done!

 

[jom2003]

Slowmo would be the perfect replacement for Joe. His deal will expire at the same time as Joe too. Just not sure if we have the cap space needed to bring him in

 

[NUMBERICA]

Good thread.

My general point is that I think we need to be careful to not jettison the Jazz’s kick-*** offense and the continuity will be key there. I would only trade one of the main 7 players for that reason (really the 5 below Don and Rudy).

If Smart and the Celtics can’t figure out an extension, then I think Clarkson for Smart makes a lot of sense for both sides. That is the first place I’d hope there is movement.

The talk about Kyle Anderson is really interesting. I’ve been sounding the alarm about finding an Ingles replacement for years and he is the closest thing to that in the league right now. Can he nominally play the 4? Moving Bogey or Ingles I think makes sense there and both teams would theoretically be balancing out their rosters. The capabilities of a Conley/Mitchell/Ingles/Anderson 1-4 in terms of spacing, passing, and decision-making could be really tough to guard. Either Rudy at the 5 would theoretically be sick.

Anyway, outside of those two, or maybe a Bogey-for-Nance swap (which feels less pressing after the off-season additions), I’m not sure who to trade a player out for.

 

[Avery]

I think our roster is almost set at this point. Starters are unchanged while the bench adds a few key pieces to take minutes.

Only real question for me is the team gives Oni the option.

 

[NAOS]

I’m really surprised by the love that Kyle Anderson is getting. Is it because he played well against us? I’ve watched a fair number of Grizz games.... dude can absolutely disappear and frustrate the hell out of me. I’d never part with a key rotation piece (JC, Bojan) in order to acquire him.

 

[infection]

I’m really surprised by the love that Kyle Anderson is getting. Is it because he played well against us? I’ve watched a fair number of Grizz games.... dude can absolutely disappear and frustrate the hell out of me. I’d never part with a key rotation piece (JC, Bojan) in order to acquire him.

I definitely see the positives of having a guy that can facilitate, play defense, and rebound. I’d have concerns of how much of our 3PT mojo we’d lose by moving Bojan.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Good thread.

My general point is that I think we need to be careful to not jettison the Jazz’s kick-*** offense and the continuity will be key there. I would only trade one of the main 7 players for that reason (really the 5 below Don and Rudy).

If Smart and the Celtics can’t figure out an extension, then I think Clarkson for Smart makes a lot of sense for both sides. That is the first place I’d hope there is movement.

The talk about Kyle Anderson is really interesting. I’ve been sounding the alarm about finding an Ingles replacement for years and he is the closest thing to that in the league right now. Can he nominally play the 4? Moving Bogey or Ingles I think makes sense there and both teams would theoretically be balancing out their rosters. The capabilities of a Conley/Mitchell/Ingles/Anderson 1-4 in terms of spacing, passing, and decision-making could be really tough to guard. Either Rudy at the 5 would theoretically be sick.

Anyway, outside of those two, or maybe a Bogey-for-Nance swap (which feels less pressing after the off-season additions), I’m not sure who to trade a player out for.

There are really only probably 3-4 guys I'd make a move for right now (I mean that are somewhat possible and fit this mold... obvi if someone wants to gift you Zion you'd do that).

Its really Smart, Melton, Anderson, RoCo atm.

Memphis starters... Morant, Brooks, Anderson, JJJ, Adams. Is that better than Morant, Brooks, Bojan, JJJ, Adams? I'm sure they'd like to get Clarke some time at the 4 and JJJ some time at the 5. They will need to pay all their core guys in 2 years so maybe having Bogey's deal expire in 2 years is good for them. I'd say they would likely be in on a Bojan for Anderson and Tyus Jones trade. I'm not sure we'd be in but its interesting.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m really surprised by the love that Kyle Anderson is getting. Is it because he played well against us? I’ve watched a fair number of Grizz games.... dude can absolutely disappear and frustrate the hell out of me. I’d never part with a key rotation piece (JC, Bojan) in order to acquire him.

Oh that's part of it for sure. He was really good last year. Its a deal I might wait on if I'm the Jazz... his shooting could drop again and his value would tank pretty hard.

I think he's terrible when he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd guy... i think he's pretty great as the 4th/5th option on the court and defensively he's impactful and unique.

 

[NAOS]

I definitely see the positives of having a guy that can facilitate, play defense, and rebound. I’d have concerns of how much of our 3PT mojo we’d lose by moving Bojan.

Well, yeah, .... the problem is that Kyle just doesn’t do this stuff consistently enough.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I definitely see the positives of having a guy that can facilitate, play defense, and rebound. I’d have concerns of how much of our 3PT mojo we’d lose by moving Bojan.

I would too... Kyle is like the opposite of Bogey. He's a do **** guy... could score like 7-8 points and impact a game... Bogey could score 30 and not register another stat. It might be too big of a change since Kyle's on a 1 year deal. The adjustment might be tough.

 

[infection]

There are really only probably 3-4 guys I'd make a move for right now (I mean that are somewhat possible and fit this mold... obvi if someone wants to gift you Zion you'd do that).

Its really Smart, Melton, Anderson, RoCo atm.

Memphis starters... Morant, Brooks, Anderson, JJJ, Adams. Is that better than Morant, Brooks, Bojan, JJJ, Adams? I'm sure they'd like to get Clarke some time at the 4 and JJJ some time at the 5. They will need to pay all their core guys in 2 years so maybe having Bogey's deal expire in 2 years is good for them. I'd say they would likely be in on a Bojan for Anderson and Tyus Jones trade. I'm not sure we'd be in but its interesting.

With Portland’s defensive issues, do you think they see many opportunities for moving Covington that returns them e laugh of what they need?

 

[cowhide]

I guess people are either bored or never satisfied. I think the Jazz have made plenty of moves and there are already going to be issues with guys getting minutes. No on Smart. His shooting is average and he has anger issues. I don't think he wants to come off the bench either.

 

[infection]

I would too... Kyle is like the opposite of Bogey. He's a do **** guy... could score like 7-8 points and impact a game... Bogey could score 30 and not register another stat. It might be too big of a change since Kyle's on a 1 year deal. The adjustment might be tough.

Quin might need a full season to integrate him. I mean, it seems like it’d be easy, but sex machine and all. I don’t think he’s lubing it and it’s getting really uncomfortable for people. He may assume that because he likes it rough that everyone else does, too.