Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
4:01 also.
Seeing AL Objectively - SLCdunk article
- Thread starter Scorpjazz
- Start date
orangello
Well-Known Member
Here's my take on Big Al:
1. He's got a good heart and wants to do what right but he is limited in his talent/ability.
2. He's doesn't have a killer instinct. He's lazy by nature but tries to fight it. Since he has come to the Jazz he's done everything he can to beat his lazy nature and so far he's winning.
3. He's can be a good guy to have in the locker room, but he's not a leader
Here's my proof.
1. Good heart, limited ability (on defense)
- Minnesota offered him a max contract and he didn't take it because he felt like he hadn't proved himself yet
- He has stated that Derrick Favors is gonna be a star someday and he hopes he's on the team when that happens (he's always talking the rookies up)
- Despite his reputation as a black hole, he has improved immensely since he got here
-As far as his ability, I hate the "wheezy" but it works. He's just slow on defense, I don't know if he'll be able to get quicker.
2. In January of 2011 Jefferson hurt himself when he fell after a dunk and he said "That's why I don't like dunking"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M102G2JO5Eg At that point I was done with him. I don't want a big man that's scared to dunk. But then Al Jefferson took over in March and I became a fan. He played with a ton of heart, but I don't think he has a killer instinct.
I also think he goes to Santa Barbara to force himself to work out. I think he will settle easily (did you see the picture of his girl friend?) He has to motivate himself to work hard, he doesn't have the talent of being a hard worker (Demarre Carroll said, "if you are a hard worker, thats a talent!" I think Al Jefferson has a tremendous amount of talent, but he doesn't have the fire that super stars have.)
3. I was excited about having Memo being Kanter's mentor. When Memo got traded Kanter was lonely until Big Al started teasing him. Teasing Kanter brought the team together. And I know everyone says Favors and Kanter need minutes to develop, but do you know what's more important than minutes? Practice. That's right. Practice makes players develop more than minutes. And having to go up against Big Al in practice is great for him (Favors recently said the toughest player he has to guard is Big Al. The Jazz front office is genius. I also think Alec Burks having to fight with Foye for minutes is a positive thing.)
Al can be a good locker room guy when they are winning, but he wasn't good when they were losing.
1. He's got a good heart and wants to do what right but he is limited in his talent/ability.
2. He's doesn't have a killer instinct. He's lazy by nature but tries to fight it. Since he has come to the Jazz he's done everything he can to beat his lazy nature and so far he's winning.
3. He's can be a good guy to have in the locker room, but he's not a leader
Here's my proof.
1. Good heart, limited ability (on defense)
- Minnesota offered him a max contract and he didn't take it because he felt like he hadn't proved himself yet
- He has stated that Derrick Favors is gonna be a star someday and he hopes he's on the team when that happens (he's always talking the rookies up)
- Despite his reputation as a black hole, he has improved immensely since he got here
-As far as his ability, I hate the "wheezy" but it works. He's just slow on defense, I don't know if he'll be able to get quicker.
2. In January of 2011 Jefferson hurt himself when he fell after a dunk and he said "That's why I don't like dunking"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M102G2JO5Eg At that point I was done with him. I don't want a big man that's scared to dunk. But then Al Jefferson took over in March and I became a fan. He played with a ton of heart, but I don't think he has a killer instinct.
I also think he goes to Santa Barbara to force himself to work out. I think he will settle easily (did you see the picture of his girl friend?) He has to motivate himself to work hard, he doesn't have the talent of being a hard worker (Demarre Carroll said, "if you are a hard worker, thats a talent!" I think Al Jefferson has a tremendous amount of talent, but he doesn't have the fire that super stars have.)
3. I was excited about having Memo being Kanter's mentor. When Memo got traded Kanter was lonely until Big Al started teasing him. Teasing Kanter brought the team together. And I know everyone says Favors and Kanter need minutes to develop, but do you know what's more important than minutes? Practice. That's right. Practice makes players develop more than minutes. And having to go up against Big Al in practice is great for him (Favors recently said the toughest player he has to guard is Big Al. The Jazz front office is genius. I also think Alec Burks having to fight with Foye for minutes is a positive thing.)
Al can be a good locker room guy when they are winning, but he wasn't good when they were losing.
TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
When you look at the team without Jefferson on the floor, it is interesting.
They get out and run a whole lot, which seems to work.
orangello
Well-Known Member
I see all of the offseason acquisitions being very effective is a run style offense. Makes you wonder.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
This is a really good post. I wasn't aware that he'd turned down a max contract. I think your assessment of Jefferson is spot on. He's not wired to be a top tier player and he knows it. He's a totally loveable character, though, and has the potential to positively impact the team in many ways. I heard several guys comment that he is the funniest guy on the team. He doesn't have leadership skills, though. Maybe Al will be satisfied with a significantly reduced contract and a back-up role? Assuming that Kanter develops into a starter this season, that could be a great scenario for the Jazz. Al has said he wants to finish his career in Utah. Would he be willing to do it under these circumstances.
TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
You might've hit it on the nail there.
On the one hand, it looks like they're building around Jefferson's offensive post presence.
Then on the other hand, if you look at that Laker game and the other games around that time, all these guys would work out even better running with Sap and Mo pushing the break.
TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
That would probably be a dream scenerio for the Jazz.
And I dare say Jefferson coming off the bench would put the Jazz into the position to make a big push in the playoffs.
Jefferson would kill teams benches for sure, and it wouldn't be as much of a sacrifice to other players offensive skill sets differing to him as bench players.
I think Kanter developing into a starter this year is extremely optimistic. I would love for it to happen, but I think its still gonna take him 2 or 3 years. Luckily Jefferson still has 4 or 5 years left in him. If the Jazz can keep him around for a Boozerlike contract ($13-15 million) I say do it.
Chris
Well-Known Member
We can sit here all day and debate the good and bad aspects of Al Jefferson, but to whom are we comparing him? Are we comparing him to the all-time greats, or to the other centers that are currently in the league? Let's keep in mind: this is not the 90s when lots of teams had either a great or a pretty good center. There are a lot of factors to consider regarding who you want on your team, when comparing apples to apples. Because Kareem Abdul-Jabaar isn't working through that door.
So who are the centers in the league that we are comparing Al to? Perhaps it's Dwight Howard, who can't hit the broadside of a barn from the free throw line and has absolutely no jump shot. He also makes max money and would never play in Utah. Or maybe we can compare him to Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka, who are good defensively but can't hold a candle to Al's offensive numbers. Or maybe we're comparing him to Andrew Bynum, who is injury riddled, STILL has major maturity problems, and will probably be seeking max money once his deal expires are this coming season. Or perhaps we're comparing him to Tim Duncan, who is a once-in-a-generation first ballot Hall Of Famer, and who will retire in San Antonio.
Maybe we're comparing him to Marcin Gortat, who gets blocked more times than a horny pubescent kid trying to surf those fun websites at school. How about Joakim Noah, who has the same maturity problems as Andrew Bynum and DeMarcus Cousins for that matter? Brook Lopez is another max contract player, but he missed almost all of last year with injuries and isn't nearly the rebounder he should be. He also has worse defensive statistics than Al. Speaking of Als, Al Horford also missed most of last year with injuries, and he's not exactly a prototypical center either. Andrew Bogut can't seem to find his way onto the court, even though he's shown some talent when looking at his career in the aggregate.
Andrea Bargnani has improved slowly over the years, but is not exactly the beast that many would prefer Al to be. And where's Bargnani's defense? Marc Gasol is playing well and seems to have a great future, but he is also, unfortunately, another max player. And Memphis won't be getting rid of him any time soon. Chris Kaman -- yeah, there's an offensive juggernaut. Emeka Okafor: I'll give him that he's a good center, but he under-performs and has never been worth his contract. Greg Monroe is playing well and looks like he could very well become a perennial All-Star, but Detroit is convinced of that too. They will not let him go, as he's a cornerstone piece going forward, and they will give him a max contract when the time comes. The same is generally true of Roy Hibbert as it relates to Indiana and he's already a max contract player.
And Anthony Davis probably isn't going to be available any time soon. Kevin Garnett is still playing at a high level, but he'll retire in Boston. Joel Anthony, Robin Lopez, DeAndre Jordan, Mosgov, Nene, McGee, Hawes, Przybilla, Pekovic, and Diop are not even in the conversation.
So what this does is raise the question: who can we actually get to replace Al Jefferson -- who is better than him offensively and is a solid defensive player, and who we can afford?
As I see it, if we're going to get rid of Al, we have two options. We can let him go for nothing and re-up Derrick Favors and Paul Millsap with the money that we save (and start both of them). Or we can try to trade him and end up taking salary back that will eventually prevent us from going in the first direction. Personally, I prefer the first option, but we'll have to pick up someone better than Jeremy Evans to back up Millsap at the 4.
My whole point in posting this is to try and look at Al in the correct light. There aren't too many centers in the league who do it all, who will play in Utah, and who we can afford if we want to keep the core of our young roster intact over the next 5-10 years. These are all considerations that we have to make when judging Al Jefferson.
So who are the centers in the league that we are comparing Al to? Perhaps it's Dwight Howard, who can't hit the broadside of a barn from the free throw line and has absolutely no jump shot. He also makes max money and would never play in Utah. Or maybe we can compare him to Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka, who are good defensively but can't hold a candle to Al's offensive numbers. Or maybe we're comparing him to Andrew Bynum, who is injury riddled, STILL has major maturity problems, and will probably be seeking max money once his deal expires are this coming season. Or perhaps we're comparing him to Tim Duncan, who is a once-in-a-generation first ballot Hall Of Famer, and who will retire in San Antonio.
Maybe we're comparing him to Marcin Gortat, who gets blocked more times than a horny pubescent kid trying to surf those fun websites at school. How about Joakim Noah, who has the same maturity problems as Andrew Bynum and DeMarcus Cousins for that matter? Brook Lopez is another max contract player, but he missed almost all of last year with injuries and isn't nearly the rebounder he should be. He also has worse defensive statistics than Al. Speaking of Als, Al Horford also missed most of last year with injuries, and he's not exactly a prototypical center either. Andrew Bogut can't seem to find his way onto the court, even though he's shown some talent when looking at his career in the aggregate.
Andrea Bargnani has improved slowly over the years, but is not exactly the beast that many would prefer Al to be. And where's Bargnani's defense? Marc Gasol is playing well and seems to have a great future, but he is also, unfortunately, another max player. And Memphis won't be getting rid of him any time soon. Chris Kaman -- yeah, there's an offensive juggernaut. Emeka Okafor: I'll give him that he's a good center, but he under-performs and has never been worth his contract. Greg Monroe is playing well and looks like he could very well become a perennial All-Star, but Detroit is convinced of that too. They will not let him go, as he's a cornerstone piece going forward, and they will give him a max contract when the time comes. The same is generally true of Roy Hibbert as it relates to Indiana and he's already a max contract player.
And Anthony Davis probably isn't going to be available any time soon. Kevin Garnett is still playing at a high level, but he'll retire in Boston. Joel Anthony, Robin Lopez, DeAndre Jordan, Mosgov, Nene, McGee, Hawes, Przybilla, Pekovic, and Diop are not even in the conversation.
So what this does is raise the question: who can we actually get to replace Al Jefferson -- who is better than him offensively and is a solid defensive player, and who we can afford?
As I see it, if we're going to get rid of Al, we have two options. We can let him go for nothing and re-up Derrick Favors and Paul Millsap with the money that we save (and start both of them). Or we can try to trade him and end up taking salary back that will eventually prevent us from going in the first direction. Personally, I prefer the first option, but we'll have to pick up someone better than Jeremy Evans to back up Millsap at the 4.
My whole point in posting this is to try and look at Al in the correct light. There aren't too many centers in the league who do it all, who will play in Utah, and who we can afford if we want to keep the core of our young roster intact over the next 5-10 years. These are all considerations that we have to make when judging Al Jefferson.
orangello
Well-Known Member
If he signed for $13 to 15 mil a year I would want no part of him.
That kind of money is given to elite players and I still don't think that describes Jefferson at all.
orangello
Well-Known Member
This.
Keep hanging on to your own uninformed assumptions as you try to blast others for theirs.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
holy ****, dude. It's not my practice to neg rep people, but I almost did. Holy ****ing **** balls of **** baked in ****.
Inform yourself. Elite players get paid $17-20 million. With the # of years Jefferson has in the league he gets paid more than young guys. But I will admit that $13-15 is generous (I was using pre-CBA numbers.) Let's take it to $10-$14 million (I really don't know where the mark is set nowadays, but if Kris Humphries is getting $12 million, Big Al is a bargain at $13...The again, the Nets are idiots so we shouldn't really use them as an example.)
https://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
@NAOS- what do you have a problem with? My assessment of Kanter (I won't back down from that) or of Big Al's worth (I could be wrong, but what do you think he's worth?)
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Don't worry, dude. You know The Tank has a How Much Will The Jazz Resign Jeffy For? thread in the hole. You know it's coming. The only question is how much, and I figure north of $15mm.
TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
There's no doubt if stupid Kris Humphries is getting 12 million, then Jefferson is going to want more than that for sure.
Maybe the Nets are the leagues problem here, signing players to contracts they're not even close to worth.
The Gerald Wallace contract might be the reason we get screwed out of re-signing Millsap.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
screw you and all your progeny.