Serious question: Why are people rooting for the Jazz to win this year?

[billyshelby]

I will never care how great a draft is supposed to be. For enlightenment, ask the fans of the Clippers, Toronto, Minnesota, and every other perennial cellar dweller how great the drafts supposedly were when they assembled lottery pick after lottery pick. The experts are often wrong about this, and there have only been about 20 elite players in the last 10 drafts. The odds are still high that at least 2 of our high lotto picks will be either scrubs or busts. The other two are more likely to become serviceable starters rather than all stars.

Just win. In addition to our promising young guys, we have vets that are actual assets in trade. In the course of winning, we'll find out who we should build around or trade while simultaneously increasing the value of our assets. But never sucker yourself into thinking A) I know "this guy" is going to be good so we have to lose and get him minutes so that B) we can get a higher draft pick for another guy we can predetermine is good.

 

[Eyenosetooth]

The future belongs to the youth. Once something is washed up u hang it out to dry... Playing these guys can only hurt their trade value. I hope they are gone before we get a nationally televised game and everyone knows how bad they suck.

 

[billyshelby]

The future belongs to the youth. Once something is washed up u hang it out to dry... Playing these guys can only hurt their trade value. I hope they are gone before we get a nationally televised game and everyone knows how bad they suck.

Playing young guys can hurt their value much worse. How much do you think Evan Turner is worth on the open market right now?

 

[BluesRocker]

Evan turner still has high value. And he is going to have a good year this year.

 

[Eyenosetooth]

It can also help young guys develope. How much did we get out of boozer after letting him drag us down all those years? I don't know how much evan turner is worth but I would trade okur and jefferson for him right now. Too bad sixers wouldn't.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Will you give the guy a break? How about you give Corbin a chance to actually make adjustments and figure out what he has in this team?? Okur didn't work out last night, so let's see if Corbin makes an adjustment by starting Favors next game. I have a feeling he will, because right now is all about figuring out how each lineup plays together.

No, we can't give Corbin a break. After 30 games as a head coach, we already know he's a bust, just like Chicago knew Sloan was completely incompetent after 2+ years and a record of 94-121.

For what it's worth, Jerry was given the 88-89 Jazz team after 17 games when Layden unexpectedly stepped down (despite an 11/6 record). Difference is he had elite players in Malone (29/11) and Stockton (17/14), and great supporting players in Bailey (20 pts/per), Griffith (13 pts) and a formidable defensive center (Eaton with 10 rebs and 4 blocks/per). I don't think you can say Favors, Hayward, Harris and Jefferson are anywhere near that level.

As for the topic, I'll cheer for the Jazz to win and for GS to win just enough to finish in the 8-10 range. I don't think there's much danger in Utah making the playoffs. They're just to young and raw. But hopefully we'll see great effort every night and positive strides with the new defense and running some plays on offense, especially setting screens and all the back cuts.

 

[Jazz4ever]

No, we can't give Corbin a break. After 30 games as a head coach, we already know he's a bust, just like Chicago knew Sloan was completely incompetent after 2+ years and a record of 94-121.

For what it's worth, Jerry was given the 88-89 Jazz team after 17 games when Layden unexpectedly stepped down (despite an 11/6 record). Difference is he had elite players in Malone (29/11) and Stockton (17/14), and great supporting players in Bailey (20 pts/per), Griffith (13 pts) and a formidable defensive center (Eaton with 10 rebs and 4 blocks/per). I don't think you can say Favors, Hayward, Harris and Jefferson are anywhere near that level.

As for the topic, I'll cheer for the Jazz to win and for GS to win just enough to finish in the 8-10 range. I don't think there's much danger in Utah making the playoffs. They're just to young and raw. But hopefully we'll see great effort every night and positive strides with the new defense and running some plays on offense, especially setting screens and all the back cuts.

Unfortunately there are glaring signs of incompetence that foreshadow he just isn't the brightest guy. Playing Okur and Jefferson against a fleet footed Blazer team with Batum and Wallace as their PFs was mind boggling. With just 2 preseason games, you are not randomly playing guys just to get their legs under them. You should be practicing real game strategies that have the best chance of working.

 

[Nate505]

I can't root for the Jazz to lose. It's not in my DNA.

 

[Nate505]

Ok, in this situation there are chance that we can be a farm of good young players for big market teams, don't we?

Spurs, OKC are a good examples, but it's not necessary that it will be that way.

No kidding. The Clippers have sucked for decades and this may be their first chance to have any sort of contending team. Just sucking and getting a top pick doesn't mean everything.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I can't root for the Jazz to lose. It's not in my DNA.

Hard for me to consider anyone a fan of a particular team if he/she thinks otherwise.

Only time I root for my team (basketball or otherwise) to do badly is if they're already losing a game by a lot and I want them to be completely embarrassed so that they get pissed off and play better and win the next game. And that's only if they're down, say, 30 points going into the fourth quarter. I'd probably want them to lose by 50 just so that they get extremely humbled.

 

[freakazoid]

In addition to our promising young guys, we have vets that are actual assets in trade. In the course of winning, we'll find out who we should build around or trade while simultaneously increasing the value of our assets.

Agree with this, except maybe for the winning part. I'm not too convinced there's going to be a whole lot of that. Utah needs to get as much trade value as possible out of the guys that won't be sticking around.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The odds are still high that at least 2 of our high lotto picks will be either scrubs or busts. The other two are more likely to become serviceable starters rather than all stars.

This is also (/actually?) an argument to get as many chances as you can to draft high.

 

[NUMBERICA]

No kidding. The Clippers have sucked for decades and this may be their first chance to have any sort of contending team. Just sucking and getting a top pick doesn't mean everything.

Actually, it did this time around (even if it hadn't before).

 

[freakazoid]

This is also (/actually?) an argument to get as many chances as you can to draft high.

Agree.

For enlightenment, ask the fans of the Clippers, Toronto, Minnesota, and every other perennial cellar dweller how great the drafts supposedly were when they assembled lottery pick after lottery pick.

To me, this just shows how unrealistic most Jazz fans are when it comes to rebuilding. We missed one season of playoffs last time around, so now, anything more than that, and we are in danger of becoming the T-Wolves or Clippers. Personally, I'm expecting 2 seasons missed, which will still be fantastic.

One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking, is the fact that Utah could possibly be looking at a ton of capsace next season. This is one reason I think they look to move Al if we're not in the playoff hunt. 2 lotto picks and a lot of capspace = Utah might be in a position to take a major step forward next year. It's not just about draft picks, but about the big picture in trying to build a team.

 

[vslice02]

To me, this just shows how unrealistic most Jazz fans are when it comes to rebuilding. We missed one season of playoffs last time around, so now, anything more than that, and we are in danger of becoming the T-Wolves or Clippers. Personally, I'm expecting 2 seasons missed, which will still be fantastic.

Actually we missed the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons (2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06). Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?

The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.

There has to be a balance between gaining experience for your young players as well as remaining competitive - because having your young players get their asses kicked every single night will do more harm than good. Nothing sucks more in professional sports than losing - it creates an incredibly negative atmosphere where some players start checking out, some start focusing more on their own numbers and that can spread like a disease where suddenly half the team is developing the bad habits that will squash whatever promising potential you thought you had.

It's very feasible for Utah to give their young players alot of NBA-experience while still playing their proven players enough to remain competitive each night. Tanking the season for the opportunity at more ping-pong balls would do more harm to our young core's development than help it.

 

[Chris-L]

Actually we missed the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons (2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06). Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?

The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.

There has to be a balance between gaining experience for your young players as well as remaining competitive - because having your young players get their asses kicked every single night will do more harm than good. Nothing sucks more in professional sports than losing - it creates an incredibly negative atmosphere where some players start checking out, some start focusing more on their own numbers and that can spread like a disease where suddenly half the team is developing the bad habits that will squash whatever promising potential you thought you had.

It's very feasible for Utah to give their young players alot of NBA-experience while still playing their proven players enough to remain competitive each night. Tanking the season for the opportunity at more ping-pong balls would do more harm to our young core's development than help it.

Well said! Could not agree more.

 

[green]

Anyone who compares the Jazz to the Clippers or Grizzlies loses all credibility. That's just ridiculous.

 

[green]

Actually we missed the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons (2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06). Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?

The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.

There has to be a balance between gaining experience for your young players as well as remaining competitive - because having your young players get their asses kicked every single night will do more harm than good. Nothing sucks more in professional sports than losing - it creates an incredibly negative atmosphere where some players start checking out, some start focusing more on their own numbers and that can spread like a disease where suddenly half the team is developing the bad habits that will squash whatever promising potential you thought you had.

It's very feasible for Utah to give their young players alot of NBA-experience while still playing their proven players enough to remain competitive each night. Tanking the season for the opportunity at more ping-pong balls would do more harm to our young core's development than help it.

Completely disagree. If the players start playing for stats, not trying hard, etc, then that is all on Corbin and he should and will be gone. To root for this team to barely miss the playoffs and the 13th pick instead of rooting for a top 3 pick is ludacrist.

Tanking the season and drafting a Durant or Kobe hurts us? Lol. Ask San Antonio how that hurt them. Ask OKC how that hurt them. Ask Cleveland how drafting LeBron hurt. Your argument is a cop-out. It's a short season. We aren't very good. Heck, I would argue rewarding Jefferson and Bell with minutes hurts morale more than losing. This is an opportunity for Utah to actually become a legit title contender the only way they can; through the draft. We aren't getting any free agents, and if we do not draft a superstar this year, we will lose Favors, Hayward, etc just like we did Deron.

But you enjoy your scrappy Jazz.

 

[billyshelby]

It's not about being unrealistic. It's about what rebuilding actually is. I've said this before, but rebuilding is something that happens OFF the court. KOC is doing a superb job of this. We have very good veteran players/assets, a great nucleus of young talent, and everybody owed significant dollars is off the books in 2 years (translation: those guys are also very valuable as expirings in the year BEFORE the big tax hits come.)

Most rebuilding teams do not have the talent we have. The goal is to figure out which guys we want to build around. It might be the young guys. It might be that either Sap or Al blow up and trading one of the young guys is the best option. But in all scenarios, I'd rather be trading assets for bona fide NBA players than trying to have the most lottery picks on the roster. There's only ONE way to rebuild for the doormats of the league who only have youth and promise (and plenty of busts) on their roster. We have MULTIPLE ways to rebuild depending on how the cards fall.

 

[billyshelby]

Tanking the season and drafting a Durant or Kobe hurts us? Lol. Ask San Antonio how that hurt them. Ask OKC how that hurt them. Ask Cleveland how drafting LeBron hurt.

Do you realize how unsure the draft process really is? For every Durant, Kobe, and Lebron, there are countless guys who never succeeded. It's extremely unlikely (statistically) that a team, even high in the draft, will get a superstar.