Should We Move Gobert?

[Getting Traded]

Rudy was a problem with small ball, but Quin was a bigger problem when he didn't make the proper adjustments. Yes, Mann played out of his mind, and if he didn't, it might've been a different story. On the other hand, if Rudy didn't cause so many turnovers, they may not have been able to come back from such a huge deficit no matter how well they shot.

 

[fishonjazz]

Combination of Personnel and coaching IMO. Who is telling jordan clarkson to pick up jackson 6 feet beyond the arc? Who is telling Rudy to guard Mann over Beverly? Who isn't giving Rudy any rest in the 2nd half when he's clearly gassed?

This loss was on Snyder. As long as the jazz hang on to him the 2nd round will be our ceiling. He's our Dwayne Casey.

This reminds me of yet another adjustment quin could have made but didn't.
Since everything for the clippers started by getting past their defender and making gobert come help, why not tell Clarkson, bogey, Conley, Royce, etc to sag off their man on the outside a bit so it's harder to get blown by. Sure that would give them some space to shoot 3's but I would rather have them shooting 3's with a defender 3 feet away from them than shooting 3's with a defender 10 feet away from them

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[Getting Traded]

This reminds me of yet another adjustment quin could have made but didn't.
Since everything for the clippers started by getting past their defender and making gobert come help, why not tell Clarkson, bogey, Conley, Royce, etc to sag off their man on the outside a bit so it's harder to get blown by. Sure that would give them some space to shoot 3's but I would rather have them shooting 3's with a defender 3 feet away from them than shooting 3's with a defender 10 feet away from them

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Well, that certainly is on the coaching.

 

[magic]

For those saying we won't get equal value, y'all are missing the fact that it's addition by subtraction. Sure we might have a worse regular season record, but like the Clippers, if we trade Gobert for different pieces we could be built for the postseason for once.

If we keep Gobert, we kiss goodbye any chance of a championship.

I like Gobert better than Donovan as a person, but this is basketball and I'd choose Donovan to build around 10 out of 10 times.

 

[l Abach l]

This reminds me of yet another adjustment quin could have made but didn't.
Since everything for the clippers started by getting past their defender and making gobert come help, why not tell Clarkson, bogey, Conley, Royce, etc to sag off their man on the outside a bit so it's harder to get blown by. Sure that would give them some space to shoot 3's but I would rather have them shooting 3's with a defender 3 feet away from them than shooting 3's with a defender 10 feet away from them

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I'm bewildered that armchair coaches with no coaching experience in basketball at any level have better ideas than what we witnessed last night... and just like that the Jazz's title hopes are blown away like a fart in the wind

 

[SoUjazzfan]

If you trade Gobert you'd better get some world class scorers because we'll give up 150 points a night with our defense (or lack thereof). It'll be a layup line for the opposing team every game. You better get rid of Quin and get a new scheme if Rudy goes.

 

[LogGrad98]

So tell us idiots how we surround Rudy with competent defenders that can shoot well enough to not compromise spacing with the amount of money we are paying Rudy?

I think you’re right that there’s not a chance in hell a Gobert trade is even considered right now. But most people advocating a trade aren’t doing so on the grounds that Rudy’s play is “part of the problem.” It’s just that a solution to the problem is exceedingly hard to find with him being paid what he is.

Rudy isn’t the problem if he’s surrounded by the right players, but I don’t see a path to surrounding him with the right players short of just getting really lucky in the draft or something (where we don’t even have a pick next year).

We’re asset poor, have aging guys with minimal trade value, and have cap issues. Barf. We’re basically locked into a core that I don’t think has a chance of ever winning a title, waiting until it completely ages out, and starting a full rebuild when Don leaves.

Actually most of the people calling for a trade spent the better part of the night last night saying Rudy was singlehandedly to blame for the final loss. Nevermind it was nearly a 30 point swing to our favor on D with him on the bench vs in the game.

How we get better players? Well now is when the FO earns their money. Frankly I think they need to be fired for their gross mishandling of assets. Then let the new GM figure this out. But we will obviously have to move other contracts. I love Ingles so so much but talk about a disappearing act during the playoffs. He was less than a non-factor, and as per his usual in the playoffs for the last couple of years, afraid to shoot. And obviously his abilities to lock down on the perimeter are completely gone.

Imo everyone not named Gobert or Mitchell or Clarkson should be fair game. And frankly any of them could be depending on what we can get back.

But one thing is clear, we are built for regular season success and playoff meltdowns.

This last game was the acid test for this team. This off-season will be the acid test for the FO.

 

[LogGrad98]

If you trade Gobert you'd better get some world class scorers because we'll give up 150 points a night with our defense (or lack thereof). It'll be a layup line for the opposing team every game. You better get rid of Quin and get a new scheme if Rudy goes.

Getting rid of Quin might be the best idea tbpfh. I think this series exposed his lack of creativity and ability to think and adjust on the fly, as well as his inability to get his team to play with heart. He's definitely no Sloan.

We joke about snyder killing hookers, well in that vein Snyder might look like he buried bodies in his yard, but Sloan actually buried bodies on the court. Big difference.

 

[LogGrad98]

Rudy tried but Batum didn’t want to come here.

Obviously Batum made the smart choice.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

Getting rid of Quin might be the best idea tbpfh. I think this series exposed his lack of creativity and ability to think and adjust on the fly, as well as his inability to get his team to play with heart. He's definitely no Sloan.

We joke about snyder killing hookers, well in that vein Snyder might look like he buried bodies in his yard, but Sloan actually buried bodies on the court. Big difference.

Agreed, and it wasn't just this year's playoffs where Quin has been exposed. It's the last four.

 

[LoPo]

Rudy tried but Batum didn’t want to come here.

Confirmed or just rumor?

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[Ineptimusprime]

Actually most of the people calling for a trade spent the better part of the night last night saying Rudy was singlehandedly to blame for the final loss. Nevermind it was nearly a 30 point swing to our favor on D with him on the bench vs in the game.

How we get better players? Well now is when the FO earns their money. Frankly I think they need to be fired for their gross mishandling of assets. Then let the new GM figure this out. But we will obviously have to move other contracts. I love Ingles so so much but talk about a disappearing act during the playoffs. He was less than a non-factor, and as per his usual in the playoffs for the last couple of years, afraid to shoot. And obviously his abilities to lock down on the perimeter are completely gone.

Imo everyone not named Gobert or Mitchell or Clarkson should be fair game. And frankly any of them could be depending on what we can get back.

But one thing is clear, we are built for regular season success and playoff meltdowns.

This last game was the acid test for this team. This off-season will be the acid test for the FO.

Good post. Firing the FO will go a long way to restoring my hope for the future.

And I want Ainge. We need some cut-throat attitude here. Smith and Wade can be the good cops.

 

[LoPo]

If you trade Gobert you'd better get some world class scorers because we'll give up 150 points a night with our defense (or lack thereof). It'll be a layup line for the opposing team every game. You better get rid of Quin and get a new scheme if Rudy goes.

This just isn't true. There are some God awful teams in this league and they don't give up 125.

We are afraid of post-Rudy life but almost every team in the league exists without a Rudy. It's called modern basketball and it eats us alive.



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[Jazz4ever]

Actually most of the people calling for a trade spent the better part of the night last night saying Rudy was singlehandedly to blame for the final loss. Nevermind it was nearly a 30 point swing to our favor on D with him on the bench vs in the game.

How we get better players? Well now is when the FO earns their money. Frankly I think they need to be fired for their gross mishandling of assets. Then let the new GM figure this out. But we will obviously have to move other contracts. I love Ingles so so much but talk about a disappearing act during the playoffs. He was less than a non-factor, and as per his usual in the playoffs for the last couple of years, afraid to shoot. And obviously his abilities to lock down on the perimeter are completely gone.

Imo everyone not named Gobert or Mitchell or Clarkson should be fair game. And frankly any of them could be depending on what we can get back.

But one thing is clear, we are built for regular season success and playoff meltdowns.

This last game was the acid test for this team. This off-season will be the acid test for the FO.

Ingles was closer to his season performance than Gobert. Here is Gobert's series averages in points, rebounds, and blocks. In parenthesis is his season averages. He just wasn't effective.

ppg: 12.5 (14.3)
rpg: 11.7 (13.5)
bpg: 1.2 (2.2)

Here is his game by game +/-

-24
-4
-1
-16
+14
+5

Not the mark of a man worth 40m a year.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz shouldn't move Gobert unless the deal is just amazing. Gobert isn't a liability. His defense, his rebounding and his gravity at the rim are extremely helpful.

Gobert is just being asked to do too much, and the Jazz should come up with a lineup that isn't entirely dependent upon him.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

Jazz shouldn't move Gobert unless the deal is just amazing. Gobert isn't a liability. His defense, his rebounding and his gravity at the rim are extremely helpful.

Gobert is just being asked to do too much, and the Jazz should come up with a lineup that isn't entirely dependent upon him.

Tbh, Gobert is being asked to essentially do everything on defense. He can cover for multiple players on occasion each game, but not everyone every game.

 

[MT Steve]

Jazz shouldn't move Gobert unless the deal is just amazing. Gobert isn't a liability. His defense, his rebounding and his gravity at the rim are extremely helpful.

Gobert is just being asked to do too much, and the Jazz should come up with a lineup that isn't entirely dependent upon him.

I agree with the overall point, but the league isn't moving farther away from smallball. Gobert will have to defend on the perimeter in future postseasons, and, although he's fine at that, it does nullify his rim protection. Which also nullifies his value to the team.

It's tough to swallow when you're paying a guy that much to not be much of a factor in the playoffs.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Tbh, Gobert is being asked to essentially do everything on defense. He can cover for multiple players on occasion each game, but not everyone every game.

This is why getting some lanky perimeter defenders would help I think. Longer arms in the passing lanes will be able to contest better, and intercept and deflect more kick out passes to waiting open 3 point shooters. DL and JZ would have to get VERY LUCKY to find a player on their hamstung budget though. Like scouring the euro leagues with a fine tooth comb to find a 6'8" Royce Oneal.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I agree with the overall point, but the league isn't moving farther away from smallball. Gobert will have to defend on the perimeter in future postseasons, and, although he's fine at that, it does nullify his rim protection. Which also nullifies his value to the team.

It's tough to swallow when you're paying a guy that much to not be much of a factor in the playoffs.

The Clippers aren't "small." The Clippers were bigger, longer and more physical than the Jazz at every position except Gobert.

If you want to criticize someone, then criticize Mike Conley. He can't guard anyone. He couldn't shoot. He couldn't drive. He had several live-ball turnovers that swung the game. The problem isn't that Rudy is too big. It's that Mike is too small.

If the Jazz didn't need to send Conley help guarding PG, then Mann wouldn't have been as open in the first place.

 

[MT Steve]

The Clippers aren't "small." The Clippers were bigger, longer and more physical than the Jazz at every position except Gobert.

By small, I mean 5-out. The context of my post, and this whole discussion, should have made that obvious.

If you want to criticize someone, then criticize Mike Conley. He can't guard anyone. He couldn't shoot. He couldn't drive. He had several live-ball turnovers that swung the game. The problem isn't that Rudy is too big. It's that Mike is too small.

If the Jazz didn't need to send Conley help guarding PG, then Mann wouldn't have been as open in the first place.

The point is that Gobert still has to defend the perimeter in 5-out schemes. If our perimeter players could better defend, that wouldn't be as big of an issue. But the fact remains that Gobert's biggest strength - his rim protection - is nullified, and therefore so is his value. When he's not at the rim to defend, he's not worth what we're paying him.

It's not his fault. I'm not criticizing him for it. It just is what it is.