Start Mitchell at the Point.

[NAOS]

It was ugly AF. Ish gave him 7 quick points... Royce also spotted Bullock 9 quick ones to open the game.

Winning Ugly should have been our theme though... this is what we do.

I think I’ve continually strained at how infrequently Q seems to use all this “positional flexibility” we seem to have. And at how he seems totally committed to the idea that “you dance with who you brought” on any given night.

For example: Royce. Somehow, that dude can be a drastically different player, night-to-night. But if Q plans on using him, then he gets good burn, regardless of which Royce shows up. If he isn’t in the gameplan, then he doesn’t seem to get to extra minutes.

Extra minutes where, you ask? How about as a small-ball 4 on a night where Jae can’t throw it in the ocean? Positional flexibility, right?

We almost tossed last night into the trash bin... and dammit, it was because of a type of stubbornness that irritates me.

I used to make reference to a key difference in coaching by comparing Mike Shannahan and Bill Belichick. Shannahan was a “my system” guy; he’d shoehorn guys into unnatural roles and his imagination seemed limited. Belichick is way better at adapting and molding gameplans around the skills in the locker room. Anywhooo.... I’m starting to get a bit uncomfortable with how often Q is making me think of Shannahan. We seem to have a tight enough locker room that if a player gets the hook on any given night because they’re sucking the wang, then we aren’t going to implode.

Q, use your deck, dude.

 

[Ron Mexico]

According to Locke on the radio the jazz offense is worse with Donovan at pg. I didn’t catch how he came to that conclusion.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

Our offensive rating for the season is 107.1 defensive rating is 104.5 and our net rating is 8th best 2.5. In the last 4 games where Mitchell has been our primary PG our offensive rating is 105.7 defensive rating 95.5 and our net rating is 2nd best 10.1.

So based on a very very small sample size of 4 games our offensive is a little worse and our defense is much better.

For the season our primary lineup of .R. Rubio, .J. Crowder, .R. Gobert, .J. Ingles, .D. Mitchell is off rtg 114.8 def rtg 99.8 net 15.0, which is really good. The only 5 man lineup that has played more minutes together doing better is the main 5 for OKC that has a net rating of 16.3. I would guess our ends up better though since we have the 2nd easiest schedule left and they have the hardest. In the past few games our main lineup has been swapping Royce in for Rubio. We have played a lot of minutes with that lineup in 4 games (36 minutes). That lineup is putting up an incredible off rtg 116.7 def rtg 88.3 net 28.4.

Basically most stats show that Rubio helps on offense but our hurts us on defense.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Also. . . is it worse with Donovan Mitchell at PG or is it worse because O’Neale has been bumped up into the starting lineup? Would it still have those statistical issues if the Jazz replaced Royce in the lineup with a better offensive SG/SF to team up with Mitchell and Jingles?

Royce did kill almost every 5 man lineup he was in for the first couple months but he has been helping a lot more lately. He was awful to start this season. Now he is just inconsistent.

 

[NAOS]

Anywho, Jae has no business closing that game last night.

 

[LoPo]

Our offensive rating for the season is 107.1 defensive rating is 104.5 and our net rating is 8th best 2.5. In the last 4 games where Mitchell has been our primary PG our offensive rating is 105.7 defensive rating 95.5 and our net rating is 2nd best 10.1.

So based on a very very small sample size of 4 games our offensive is a little worse and our defense is much better.

For the season our primary lineup of .R. Rubio, .J. Crowder, .R. Gobert, .J. Ingles, .D. Mitchell is off rtg 114.8 def rtg 99.8 net 15.0, which is really good. The only 5 man lineup that has played more minutes together doing better is the main 5 for OKC that has a net rating of 16.3. I would guess our ends up better though since we have the 2nd easiest schedule left and they have the hardest. In the past few games our main lineup has been swapping Royce in for Rubio. We have played a lot of minutes with that lineup in 4 games (36 minutes). That lineup is putting up an incredible off rtg 116.7 def rtg 88.3 net 28.4.

Basically most stats show that Rubio helps on offense but our hurts us on defense.

Thanks for breaking it down.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Anywho, Jae has no business closing that game last night.

I am surprised Favors didnt come back in. Its not like Jae was hitting shots so Favors would have been better on defense and better on cleanup duty on offense.

 

[idiot]

In our three games without a true point guard (according to BB-ref), we have had an offensive rating of 105.3 (about the same as the Phoenix Suns over the season so far, and even lower than our own 4th-place defensive rating) against teams collectively averaging a 109.6 defensive rating. Our year's offensive rating is 108.3. We've survived, but we certainly haven't thrived offensively.

I'm not going to look up more than that.

It's a small sample size, but we need our PGs back. Over time, it's likely that teams will catch up even more to what we're doing without a PG now that they can scout us better.

(PS -- hadn't seen Ron Mexico's breakdown before I posted -- sorry for the redundancy -- though the slightly different framing of the issues may give a more complete picture)

 

[dakidmas]

I'm almost 100% sold on Mitchell being the point of the future, he is our mini Harden without the flops, let Dante run the second unit.

The big test will come in the games against Portland and Denver next week. While Mitchell has been awesome its been a blessing to be up against some average teams during this stretch.

 

[RRJazz]

How can you compare stats from 41 games (16 at home, 25 away) that included 2 vs OKC, 2 vs Toronto, 2 vs Houston, 2 vs GS, 2 vs Spurs, 2 vs Indiana, 2 vs 76ers, etc. to 4 games at home vs Orlando, LA (no Lebron), Chicago, and Detroit??????

Just the refereeing is like night and day.

 

[Jazz]

Should have been Harden.

Was Rudy legit pissed at Donovan in his post game interview ?

I think he is just frustrated hes not getting as much ball. In his interview he gave credit to Joe for getting him the ball. Read between the lines I think he's frustrated with Donovan. Look Donovan is a scorer that's who he is so he doesn't really know how to play pg. Joe really is the playmaker out there

 

[LoPo]

We don't need Rubio AND Exum. One needs to go because I'm fine with Neto and eventually Grayson as emergency options.

So between Rubio and Exum, who goes and when?

 

[NAOS]

I am surprised Favors didnt come back in. Its not like Jae was hitting shots so Favors would have been better on defense and better on cleanup duty on offense.

I rarely talk to the TV screen, but I was staring, palms up, asking “Where the **** is Favors?”

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think I’ve continually strained at how infrequently Q seems to use all this “positional flexibility” we seem to have. And at how he seems totally committed to the idea that “you dance with who you brought” on any given night.

For example: Royce. Somehow, that dude can be a drastically different player, night-to-night. But if Q plans on using him, then he gets good burn, regardless of which Royce shows up. If he isn’t in the gameplan, then he doesn’t seem to get to extra minutes.

Extra minutes where, you ask? How about as a small-ball 4 on a night where Jae can’t throw it in the ocean? Positional flexibility, right?

We almost tossed last night into the trash bin... and dammit, it was because of a type of stubbornness that irritates me.

I used to make reference to a key difference in coaching by comparing Mike Shannahan and Bill Belichick. Shannahan was a “my system” guy; he’d shoehorn guys into unnatural roles and his imagination seemed limited. Belichick is way better at adapting and molding gameplans around the skills in the locker room. Anywhooo.... I’m starting to get a bit uncomfortable with how often Q is making me think of Shannahan. We seem to have a tight enough locker room that if a player gets the hook on any given night because they’re sucking the wang, then we aren’t going to implode.

Q, use your deck, dude.

Pretty short handed I could see why he stayed with Crowder... How did Royce play 27 minutes and not get one shot off?

Strange night. Sometimes you have to win a rock fight.

I do think Royce is more of a small ball four than a 2 guard and I still think Crowder should start (can play off DM/Rudy/Joe and spot up instead of gunning off the bench). I think Favs would do better off the bench if he was fresh, but may be wrong.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I am surprised Favors didnt come back in. Its not like Jae was hitting shots so Favors would have been better on defense and better on cleanup duty on offense.

Because Jae is better at defending closely on the perimeter.

If Blake is taking Jae down in the post, he's going to have a lot of help from Gobert. Yeah, Favors might guard him better down low, but he isnt contesting the 3 as well and that's what has the better chance of hurting you.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Because Jae is better at defending closely on the perimeter.

If Blake is taking Jae down in the post, he's going to have a lot of help from Gobert. Yeah, Favors might guard him better down low, but he isnt contesting the 3 as well and that's what has the better chance of hurting you.

I disagree with that. Favors was great all game on Blake, even on the perimeter. He is almost every time he guards him. Plus Favors guarding Blake rarely needs help. Jae needed help most of the time since he could easily back him down. I think Jae did a good job, just not as good as Favors. Did Blake score once on Favors in that game?

 

[NAOS]

Because Jae is better at defending closely on the perimeter.

If Blake is taking Jae down in the post, he's going to have a lot of help from Gobert. Yeah, Favors might guard him better down low, but he isnt contesting the 3 as well and that's what has the better chance of hurting you.

This may be true in general (but I’m not sure), but it wasn’t true last night.

And that’s kinda my point.

 

[NAOS]

Pretty short handed I could see why he stayed with Crowder... How did Royce play 27 minutes and not get one shot off?

Strange night. Sometimes you have to win a rock fight.

I do think Royce is more of a small ball four than a 2 guard and I still think Crowder should start (can play off DM/Rudy/Joe and spot up instead of gunning off the bench). I think Favs would do better off the bench if he was fresh, but may be wrong.

I was confusing in my last post. Royce was trashy last night, too.

 

[Sandman822]

We don't need Rubio AND Exum. One needs to go because I'm fine with Neto and eventually Grayson as emergency options.

So between Rubio and Exum, who goes and when?

I think Cy made a good point (forget if it was in this thread or another thread) where he basically said that if the Jazz make a trade at the deadline for a big contract guy (e.g. Porter Jr) then Rubio probably stays, but if the Jazz don't make a move then he'll likely be let go in the offseason.

My preference is Exum starts at PG with Neto there as well for some bench minutes, but I'm biased.

 

[LoPo]

I think Cy made a good point (forget if it was in this thread or another thread) where he basically said that if the Jazz make a trade at the deadline for a big contract guy (e.g. Porter Jr) then Rubio probably stays, but if the Jazz don't make a move then he'll likely be let go in the offseason.

My preference is Exum starts at PG with Neto there as well for some bench minutes, but I'm biased.

If we get some wing/PF option upgrade, I'm with Cy. We probably do need to keep Rubio.

However, I'm on the Exum train. Rubio's upside simply isn't that high. His great games happen too infrequently.

In my opinion, we need to be shopping Rubio and Favors at the deadline. We love them both, but I don't think either are essential to winning a title. If we miss them that badly, we can bring them back later on next season or something.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Regardless of the stats (which can be misleading especially on small sample sizes)... what I HAVE NOT missed are games where Rubio starts by dominating the ball, going 0-9, and ending the quarter with <4 assists.

I am tired of games where we start out by spotting the opponent 20 points!

I am tired of Rubio being touted as a great defender even though he can't stay in front of his man.

So, DM starting has been a welcome change. If rubio isnt the option moving forward then I wouldn't be too upset based on performance.