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Start Mitchell at the Point.

LoPo said:
Somebody was questioning the offense of our recent opponents. I was pointing out that two of those teams beat us regardless of where their offense ranks.

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Scenario A
@Memphis @Dallas @Philly @Boston @Indiana vs Sacramento @LA Lakers 90-83 L
Lakers scored 90 points. "LeBron pushes Lakers past Jazz for 7th win in 8 games"

@San Antonio @Oklahoma vs Miami vs Orlando in Mexico 96-89 L
Magic scored 96 points.

Scenario B
@Cleveland @Detroit @Milwaukee vs Magic 106-93 W vs LA Lakers 113-95 W

Guess what, the difference wasn't their offense, or our defense. Quite the opposite.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I am team DMPG as well, but it is more like team DM as primary creator with the ball and lets keep our minds open to what type of players fit with him.

Our next move could be to get a guy like OP jr. or Tobias or Brogdon or... and our best option may be DM as the pg. Maybe there is a big pg that comes and DM is a two... I just thing he looks more like a pg to me and he's going to be the primary playmaker anyway. We don't get to handpick the next guy to come in... we are kind of limited to whatever comes through the door or says yes. A guy who doesn't need the ball to be successful may fit better than someone who is good with it but has limited offball value.

I think we have a better chance at finding wing talent that fits than a pg with the skills and attributes we want next to him. He has thrived in the role against some bottom feeders, but they are still nba teams so let's not completely dismiss it.
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Great post.

I really like the idea of Winslow. His ability to play PG along with DM and Joe gives us some amazing mismatch opportunities. He is on an Ingles type contract the next few years too ($13 million). He is only 22.

If we send a pick and help clear their books and get them out of the luxury, I think we have a chance.


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I like Rubio, and he should start at pg the rest of the year when healthy, but I want Mitchell running pg as our starting pg. IMO pg is his natural position in the nba. Him playing next to Rubio doesn’t work. Rubio needs to have the ball to be at his best, this is also the case for Mitchell. Someone like Donovan needs the ball to get in the rhythm of the offense. With Rubio on the floor, Mitchell presses which gets him into trouble because it forces him into bad situations where he’s taking bad shots. As a pg he has the ball, it relaxes him and he feels more comfortable within the offense. All he needs is time to fully understand his role as pg, and he’ll be fine. At the end of the day. He’s the franchise, Rubio isn’t.

Rubio, as much as I like him, he can’t be here next year.

Also, at the end of the day the defense is better because we aren’t playing two smallish players at the two guard positions. And O’Neale is a much better defender than both Mitchell and Rubio.
 
Also, the offense isn’t as efficient because Mitchell is no longer playing with the second team. We have been going through offensive droughts when the second team comes in, and Exum being out as well screws with that, and Crowder decided to go on a bad shooting drought as well. I wouldn’t put this on Mitchell at all. Mitchell has actually been getting us off to a fast start in games, he comes out and the jazz have been slumping with Mitchell on the bench.

This is why I hate stats and how you need to see with your damn eyes.
 
Alfalfa said:
It's too bad we can't get someone like Beal. I'd much rather have DM-Beal backcourt with Gobert-Favors than Gobert-OPJr frontcourt with Exum-DM backcourt.
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It's tricky... I think DM, Ingles, OP Jr., Fav, Rudy might work really, really well. I also think if you had Ricky, DM, Ingles, Tobias Harris, Rudy it could work well, but I'd want Ricky more offball in the corner 3 role and more DM, Ingles, Tobias creating with the ball... but the Favs corner 3 replaced with the Ricky corner 3 is a significant upgrade.

I'm not sure we can clear the room to sign Tobias and keep Ricky. I'm not sure we can make a big trade without including Favors. If Royce keeps letting it fly from 3 and is hitting 40% then I think DM, Royce, Ingles, Harris (or other FA target), Rudy might be our best lineup that is actually attainable if that makes sense.
 
@Thee jazz fan
Eventually that's probably what the future holds for Donovan. But I wouldn't be surprised if Quin and Donovan want him to share PG duties for a couple of seasons ala James Harden.
 
What's the opinion on Dennis Smith Jr? I doubt the Jazz got the assets to acquire him (they probably would want a decent 1st rnd pick). And he's probably a couple of years from being a plus contributor as a starter on a championship caliber team. But it's an interesting idea that could work out very well in the future.
 
I am torn on Ricky though... he is such a great person and teammate... like I respect the hell out of him. Had a few people with close up experiences with him... the stuff he does in the community and how down to earth he is... I'd love to have him in the organization long term. He's unique basketball wise and it just something you have to plan around. I don't see us keeping him and Exum... unless Exum's 3 point shooting uptick was real. It's just hard to balance Ricky and Exum when they are both making good money and can't really play together.
 
Alfalfa said:
What's the opinion on Dennis Smith Jr? I doubt the Jazz got the assets to acquire him (they probably would want a decent 1st rnd pick). And he's probably a couple of years from being a plus contributor as a starter on a championship caliber team. But it's an interesting idea that could work out very well in the future.
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I heard Tim Mcmahon talking about him... I think he has some handler issues and is too much of a diva. I'm not interested, but I think a team without a pg prospect should be. He's improved over last year and may just have some maturing to do. May have a better attitude after his absence. Rick Carlisle is tough on young pgs.
 
Alfalfa said:
What's the opinion on Dennis Smith Jr? I doubt the Jazz got the assets to acquire him (they probably would want a decent 1st rnd pick). And he's probably a couple of years from being a plus contributor as a starter on a championship caliber team. But it's an interesting idea that could work out very well in the future.
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I was really not a fan of DSJ until I started watching OKC recently. If you have a decent coach, you find ways to get great players the ball. Westbrook and Schroder make them so dangerous.

If Quin can integrate DSJ and DM together, it could be amazing. Lots of risk though if he ends up being a cancer type player.

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Handlogten's Heros said:
It's tricky... I think DM, Ingles, OP Jr., Fav, Rudy might work really, really well. I also think if you had Ricky, DM, Ingles, Tobias Harris, Rudy it could work well, but I'd want Ricky more offball in the corner 3 role and more DM, Ingles, Tobias creating with the ball... but the Favs corner 3 replaced with the Ricky corner 3 is a significant upgrade.

I'm not sure we can clear the room to sign Tobias and keep Ricky. I'm not sure we can make a big trade without including Favors. If Royce keeps letting it fly from 3 and is hitting 40% then I think DM, Royce, Ingles, Harris (or other FA target), Rudy might be our best lineup that is actually attainable if that makes sense.
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Ingles is not fast enough to defend the 2. Our perimeter defense would suffer with DM as the only true guard. It would probably also drain him to defend the opponent's best guard every night. Rubio will want a good multi-year contract, and it would be waste of money to resign him and make him an off-ball corner 3 shooter.

Royce can be easily shutdown in the playoffs given his limited ability to create on the wing, and he is currently not good enough to be a starter on a championship caliber team.

If we get someone like Mirotic, then we can not let go of Favors and Rubio, have Exum run the point with Mitchell (which I don't think is great) in the starting unit, and sign an MLE level vet guard.
 
LoPo said:
Great post.

I really like the idea of Winslow. His ability to play PG along with DM and Joe gives us some amazing mismatch opportunities. He is on an Ingles type contract the next few years too ($13 million). He is only 22.

If we send a pick and help clear their books and get them out of the luxury, I think we have a chance.


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They won't move him or Richardson... those guys are their future. I think they'd move Dragic though. He isn't healthy for long periods of time it seems.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I like Rubio, and he should start at pg the rest of the year when healthy, but I want Mitchell running pg as our starting pg. IMO pg is his natural position in the nba. Him playing next to Rubio doesn’t work. Rubio needs to have the ball to be at his best, this is also the case for Mitchell. Someone like Donovan needs the ball to get in the rhythm of the offense. With Rubio on the floor, Mitchell presses which gets him into trouble because it forces him into bad situations where he’s taking bad shots. As a pg he has the ball, it relaxes him and he feels more comfortable within the offense. All he needs is time to fully understand his role as pg, and he’ll be fine. At the end of the day. He’s the franchise, Rubio isn’t.

Rubio, as much as I like him, he can’t be here next year.

Also, at the end of the day the defense is better because we aren’t playing two smallish players at the two guard positions. And O’Neale is a much better defender than both Mitchell and Rubio.
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Even with Mitchell's recent hot-streak, Mitchell's numbers on the season are better with Rubio on the court vs off the court. Same for the team's offensive rating.
 
Alfalfa said:
Ingles is not fast enough to defend the 2. Our perimeter defense would suffer with DM as the only true guard. It would probably also drain him to defend the opponent's best guard every night. Rubio will want a good multi-year contract, and it would be waste of money to resign him and make him an off-ball corner 3 shooter.

Royce can be easily shutdown in the playoffs given his limited ability to create on the wing, and he is currently not good enough to be a starter on a championship caliber team.

If we get someone like Mirotic, then we can not let go of Favors and Rubio, have Exum run the point with Mitchell (which I don't think is great) in the starting unit, and sign an MLE level vet guard.
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I disagree on Ingles... I think he's better on two guards than bigger 3s and 4s. He's not fast but reads angles, screeners and moves to the right spots. Makes up for some stuff with his wingspan. Long-term if he loses a step it aint great of course.

If Royce just spaces the floor he has done his job on offense imo... anything he gets on his drives or transition is a bonus. He's kinda PJ Tucker or Ariza to DM's Harden. my biggest issue with him is he doesn't shoot it enough when they swing it to him... he seems to have done that more lately. There is value to having a guy that knows who he is and when he doesn't have an open shot just moves it to someone quickly. Ideally he'd have a little more playmaking... has shown some ability there, but the handle seems to hold him back at times. I think he's a good passer, but still don't trust him much as a ball handler.
 
I really don’t want Rubio to come back. As much as anything, I think DM as the 1 is teaching him a lot and making him better.
 
Alfalfa said:
Sounds impossible. Mitchell has been averaging something like 28 ppg on great shooting since Rubio went down.
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The biggest difference was that Mitchell's 3pt% absolutely tanked when Rubio wasnt on the floor with him. He's shooting 28% on the year from 3 without Rubio, even with this huge hot streak.

With Rubio this year he's shooting 36% from 3.
 
LoPo said:
I was really not a fan of DSJ until I started watching OKC recently. If you have a decent coach, you find ways to get great players the ball. Westbrook and Schroder make them so dangerous.

If Quin can integrate DSJ and DM together, it could be amazing. Lots of risk though if he ends up being a cancer type player.

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Schroeder and Westbrook hold them back. Westbrook has cost the Thunder so damn much it's hilarious.
 
LoPo said:
Yeah, OKC should just waive and stretch Westbrook. He is terrible.

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He is really bad and cost them a lot.

Like last year in the playoffs where he let Rubio destroy him and then tried to go at Rubio hard despite that being an awful gameplan.

Or when he built the Golden State dynasty by blowing a 3-1 lead to the Warriors and pissing off KD enough to join them.

Or the handful of games he has cost them this year by chucking terrible shots, missing a ton of FT's, and just being awful.

If they traded him during the KD era, they'd probably have at least one ring and still have KD.
 
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